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  1. #1
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    Default Letter codes on Czech arms and ammunition (esp. "tgf")

    Originally: http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=208797

    Rev. Two Bands
    Posted - 02/02/2007 : 8:58:55 PM
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    Gentlemen, whatever tgf means, it does not mean anything like Made in the CSSR. To the best of my knowledge the Czech after '45 simply continued the German habit of using letter-code markings for their military manufacturers.



    allanschisel
    Posted - 02/02/2007 : 9:20:26 PM
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    To the best of my knowledge the Czech after '45 simply continued the German habit of using letter-code markings for their military manufacturers
    I don't dispute what you said, but what is this based on?
    Why would the Czech continue a German nazi custom when under Soviet domination? I've seen this stamp on a few of the same rifle (BRNO model #1 22LR), but most were not stamped this way and all looked to be rearsenaled during the same time period. Why were they selective, just stamping a few this way? I'm speaking out of total ignorance about what the tgf stamp means, just trying to get an explaination based on something we can all argee is valid. Like lots of other stampings, we may never really know.
    Allan Schisel



    AWO425
    Posted - 02/03/2007 : 07:14:00 AM
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    more examples:
    the VZ54 sniper has stamp she on the receiver, old military S&B made 7,62x54R has bxn headstamp.............



    Vic
    Posted - 02/03/2007 : 12:41:32 PM
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    tgf indicates contract for the DDR by Brno. It was placed on K-98's and bayonets.



    allanschisel
    Posted - 02/03/2007 : 1:12:34 PM
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    I've also posted this on the Czech board. I'll go over there and link it to this thread so everyone is on the same page. tgf meaning Czech made for East Germany is sounding pretty vaid. Vic, can you give me a link for this info?
    Allan Schisel



    Coogan
    Posted - 02/03/2007 : 2:12:26 PM
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    I'm open to new ideas, what is the citation for the DDR/tgf connection?



    Coogan
    Posted - 02/03/2007 : 2:59:59 PM
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    Why then do the bayonets (and I assume rifles) have a Czech property mark if they were made for the DDR? Other post-war Czech K98 rifles lack this property mark as they were destined for export sale - which is what these tgf marked rifles are according to Vic.



    madboy357
    Posted - 02/03/2007 : 3:11:37 PM
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    The 'tgf' code is not the only example of this, Brno continued to use the 'dot/1945' code postwar. This is common on Israeli 7,62 Mausers, but the last 'dot' coded rifle was made in 1944, succeded by the swp code for this factory in 1945.



    Nyloc
    Posted - 02/03/2007 : 4:27:08 PM
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    Originally posted by Coogan
    Why then do the bayonets (and I assume rifles) have a Czech property mark if they were made for the DDR? Other post-war Czech K98 rifles lack this property mark as they were destined for export sale - which is what these tgf marked rifles are according to Vic.
    Perhaps the bayonets were already made and marked, and supplied to the DDR to meet the contract promptly rather than manufacturing new ones. Just floating the idea.

    The K98k i had was marked 'tgf 1950' on the top of the receiver, and then small t-in-a-circle on the side with serial, no czech property marks.



    Vic
    Posted - 02/03/2007 : 6:24:31 PM
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    Existing production simply marked for export.



    bohemian
    Posted - 02/04/2007 : 11:09:58 PM
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    Lets look at the data we know.

    tgf markings are found on bayonets with Czech acceptance marks E3-lion-46, E3-lion-48 and E95-crossed swords-50, I know of at least three tgf marked Brno #1’s and we know of tgf 1950 marked k98s. Other Czech codes I know of are bxn found on ammunition, aym found on vz.52 rifles, rid on vz.52 pistols, and then she on vz.52, vz 52/57 rifles, vz.58 rifles, and vz.82 pistols. I also know of at least one or two of the vo? codes found on reworked vz.52 pistols and binoculars. So there is a long history of the Czechs using the three digit codes for military production of military things.

    I own two E3 lion 46 marked rifles. One went to Iraq and is a Bohemian lion crested rifle. The other is a dot 43 K98 with a Czech lion marked barrel that appears to have been either completely reworked or is new made on a left over receiver. Both are deeply blued. The pictures of a tgf 1950 k98 show it is also deeply blued. The tgf rifle does not appear to be Czech acceptance marked but does have the Circle T markings. All these rifles have the milled trigger housing as compared to the large stamped trigger groups that is so commonly seen on the post war Czech k98 rifles.

    I also dug thru my pile of post war Czech bayonets. I found eight post war dated blades, five were E3 lion 46 dated, but two of them were marked E3 lion 46 but without the tgf. They both have the CZ rifle barrel logo. I found two E3 lion 48, one E95 crossed swords 50 and one marked only with the crossed swords. These two different markings on bayonets is typical of the pre war Czech way of marking items made for export and made for internal use.

    The tgf marked Brno #1 that I have is in the 20000 serial number range. Both of the Brno #1 marked Brno #1’s are Lion over N 50 proofed and in the 60000 serial number range. Maybe Allan will provide some serial number data on the two tgf marked Brno #1’s to see if they are numbered less then the NL 50 proofed Brno #1’s

    I am starting to see a trend toward the belief that the tgf marked items were the coded military items manufactured prior to 1950. I see no proof that tgf was for East Germany. I believe that East Germany may have received a lot of the tgf marked items but I have no indication that all tgf was for East Germany. Too many E3 lion 46 and E3 lion 48 marked items to make me think that all tgf marked items were for East Germany. There is a long history of the Czechs using the three letter codes on their military items. In 1952 we see the rid (vz.52 pistols) and she (vz.52 rifles, vz.54 sniper rifles and vz.58 rifles) markings used on the Czech military rifles and pistols. We continue to see the she markings used up until at least 1989 on the vz.82 pistols. We also see the reworked factory codes on the vz.52 pistols and at least one pair of binoculars I have.

    What does it prove? Nothing, absolutely nothing, but the data we have indicates pre 1950 military production made for the Czechs and if some of it ended up in East Germany it wouldn’t surprise me. If there is anyone out there with more data please share it. I am by no means the expert nor are my assumptions always correct either. Feed me more data and we will figure it out.

    Robert



    allanschisel
    Posted - 02/04/2007 : 11:49:33 PM
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    05716 and 25003. I believe those are 1946 or 1947. The dates stamped on the rifles were polished off when these were rearsenaled.



    DocAV
    Posted - 02/05/2007 : 12:19:46 AM
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    tgf Initially "Tschechische Gewehr Fabrik" (German) for Czech Rifle Factory, ie, ZB (Brno). Confirmed this information in 1993 dureing discussions with one of the senior consultants ( in standing and age) at S&B in 1993, during a visit to the ammo factory.
    tgf was used from 1948 to 1950 , mostly for East German exports. besides being on Kar98k rifles, it is also found on Brno Model 1 Trainers ( also with Military acceptance marks) and other weaponry.

    In 1950, in keeping with Soviet block "Secrecy codes", other factories were given three letter codes, using a single letter shift (up or down the alphabet), so we have "she" (CZ Uhersky Brod) and "rid"(CZ Strakonice?).
    The ammo factories started with S&B being "bxn"; there are also ammo factories with "aym" and "czo". "aym" also figures on some weapons as well.
    Other Military equipment factories in the former CSSR follow suit in this three letter code system.

    For non-Soviet export, S&B reverted to the old "pre-war" "Z" headstamp, using the "ZV" (Zbrojovka Vlasim"-- Arsenal Vlasim, the town where S&B is located)) on export military 7,62 Nato and other calibres.

    Most probably the majority of exports to the DDR were marked "tgf" by co-incidence rather than design.

    The Czech Coding system derives from the Three-letter German pre-1945 codes, although the German codes were rarely logical or ordered, but sometimes referred obliquely to the name of the original owner of the code, but mostly they were purely chance arrangements, although certain initial letters referred to particular countries ("j" starts all Hungarian Codes).



    arado
    Posted - 02/05/2007 : 08:46:19 AM
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    My Brno #1 TGF marked also has the "crossed swords" military proof, "circle T" and "K" stamps. S/N 20955. No import marks. I was told in 1988 it was DDR issue..grain of salt. where's all the DDR SKS? Gary



    Rev. Two Bands
    Posted - 02/05/2007 : 8:31:30 PM
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    In other words: just as I said. The codes, after all, are not "Nazi" but simply a military device of no particular orientation, quite as the Waffenamt numbers are.
    Whatever was produced for Germany in post-occupation Tchechoslovakia was not produced in the Tschechoslovakei but in Böhmen and-or Mähren, i e the Reichsprotektorat.



    DocAV
    Posted - 02/06/2007 : 12:28:23 AM
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    The "tgf" and similar codes are POST-WAR Communist Czechoslovakian codes, and Do NOT relate (except in general design principles) to anything under the Nazi Regime. German was almost a second language for most educated Czechs (infact the First language for the Sudeten minority, the cause of the partition of Czechoslovakia in 1938);
    In fact in my discussions with the elderly Engineer at S&B, we carried it on in a mixture of English and German, myself having very little capability in the Czech language.

    So that, Alan, should clear it up...I think Rev.Two Bands is confusing the German wartime coding practice in the Protectorates of Bohmen und Mahren ( Bohemia & Moravia, the Czech "rump" state...Slovakia was a collaborationist state under the Nazis) with what went on after 1946, and especially 1948, when the Communists finally wrested control of the Government of Czechoslovakia from the pre-war moderate socialists.

    The Czechs maintained a lot of "German" engineering and ordnance practices post-1948, in many areas of ordnance manufacture...they were the only Soviet Bloc nation to make "grey parkerised" 7,62x54R and 7,62cx39 etc...all the others made carbon-copies of the Russian copper washed ammo. Their Infantry equipment reflected German designs ( ammo pouches, packs, etc) and their heavy vehicles were Skoda/German WW II designs well into the 1960s.



    Coogan
    Posted - 02/06/2007 : 06:55:47 AM
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    Hmmm. Lets look at a bit more info here:

    February, 1948 - Czechoslovakia becomes a Communist country.
    October, 1949 - East Germany is "created", if you will.

    Moving to weapons:
    I have never seen a tgf bayonet (vz.24) with a 1950 date, so I shall not comment. The 46 and 48 dated bayonets I have seen all share this: tgf is hand stamped - as if it were an after thought.
    The one 1950 tgf rifle (Kar98k) I saw (on Allans site) appeared to be marked as such during production. I do not know if it was marked E3 (or 95)-lion/crossed swords-50 or not.

    Additional info.
    There are Vopo reworked G43 series rifles known to exist. I do not know when they were reworked. Lugers and P.38 pistols are also known.
    The Makarov pistol was produced in the early 1960's in East Germany.
    The SKS (Karabiner S) was also produced - I am unsure of the date range.

    Additional questions - just thorwing them out there for conversation:
    Why does tgf translate to Czech Rifle Factory and not Czechoslovak Rifle Factory, if that is what tgf stands for?
    Why would East Germany want a vz.24 style bayonet, but a Kar98k rifle?
    EDITED TO ADD: Why purchase Kar98k rifles and vz.24 bayonets when there was push by the Soviets to produce the M44 carbine in other Communist countries?

    My stance at the moment (subject to change with new info or a revelation on my part!):
    I feel that tgf may indicate East German sales. I do not believe that all tgf marked weapons were produced originally for East Germany. I base this on the dates of production and the dates surrounding each countries political climate. I do not think that tgf means "Czech Rifle Factory", despite what DocAV was told. I think it was a convenient explanation for an unknown abbreviation/code. I would sooner accept Tchekisches Waffenfabrik - and even that only if you held a tgf rifle to my head. {] I believe that tgf falls in with rid, she, bxn, aym, etc. but on an export level (i.e. zv on East German contract 7.62x54r)

    What we need:
    More information!



    DocAV
    Posted - 02/06/2007 : 08:52:00 AM
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    To all who have contributed to this thread....Thanks for the criticisms, information and questions.

    To summarise: "tgf" We Know that they are Czechoslovak made, in the period 1946-1950 at least; (ZB factory in Brno)

    That SOME were exported to the DDR in the 1950s;

    That Model 1 .22 Sporting/trainer rifles were so marked;

    That some tgf-marked Mausers ended up in Iraq, probably from the DDR;

    That some Vz24 style bayonets were "tgf" marked and accepted by the 1946-48 Czechoslovak Republic.

    That "tgf" forms a logical part of the Post-1950 CSSR secret factory code system, based on single letter column shift ("Caeser's Cypher").

    That "tgf" was the first code to appear, preceding the others by some 4 years; The ammunition factory letter codes also do not appear till 1951, S&B using a series of symbols in the period 1947-50

    And therefore ( I deduce) that "tgf" was the Starting Point of the code system, and also deduce that it had a logical derivation (ie, the initials actually mean something.)
    The most Logical (not necessarily Correct) explanation is that "tgf"
    does mean Tcekoslovakeische (or Tcekische) Gewehr Fabrik. And since other Czech production for export was normally marked "Ceskaslovenska Zbrojovka AS Brno" with or without the Czech Lion ( see all the "Israeli Mausers" delivered up to mid-1948), one could be forgiven for considering "tgf" rifles contemporaneous with the Commercially marked Mausers were meant for a special (German Speaking) Customer, within the Soviet Block (ie, the Eastern German Zone under Soviet Control, prior to its "declaration" as the DDR in 1949.).
    The "tgf" mark seems to not exist on any rifles or other ordnance after 1950, probably because this is when ZB of Brno( Now called the Jan Sverma Works) was re-directed to other manufacturing, and the Rifle (Semi Auto)capacity was shifted to newly equipped CZ Uhersky Brod,(she) and the Pistol capacity was concentrated in CZ Strakonice,(rid).
    Even here the logicality of the sequence code wise (tgf-she-rid) also follows the transfer of capacity from the old ZB to the new Uhersky Brod; Strakonice was the next after that and so on.

    Somewhere in the voluminous CSSR archives there will be the explanations as to the coding system used from 1950 to 1989, since the Czechs, like the Soviets and the Germans, were (are) a very beaurocratic people, and religiously record everything, even without the imperative of a totalitarian regime...just look at the archives of the KGB and STASI...

    As the man said...more information required.
    or to quote that famous detective: "when all other explanations have been eliminated, what-ever remains, however seemingly implausible, must be the solution".



    Vic
    Posted - 02/06/2007 : 08:57:23 AM
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    You have to remember that preponderance of equipment used in the 1946-1949 period was German in the DDR. That's why they used a Vz-24 style bayonet and K-98 types. Do'c info mirrors mine and what I have come to understand over the years and supports the items in the former DDR Volks musuem and pictures I've seen that the tgf marked weapons were in use by the VOPO before they were trusted with Russian items.



    AWO425
    Posted - 02/06/2007 : 10:25:31 AM
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    The Lugers were in VoPo Service untill early 1970s, talked to some older police men here.
    They had also some PPSh in the racks, when the DDR did break down :-))
    There was never somthing thrown away, in some factorys the "Kampfgruppe" had also K98k in the racks till the very end.
    Too bad, most of them were trashed:-((((((((((((((((



    Kev UK
    Posted - 02/20/2007 : 07:47:28 AM
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    I arrived here by accident ,so apologise for the late post in this thread.
    I'm not sure if this has any relevance but as far a Czech LMG's go I have a VZ52/57 LMG in 7.62x39 which is marked tgf. As this is dated 52 I pressume it has been reworked from a VZ52 in 7.62 x 45 to comply with Warsaw pact standardisation.This being the case it would push the date for the code up to 1952.As far as I know the vz52 LMG and the 7.62 x 45 round was specificaly Czech only in Eastern Europe ?
    Hope this doesn't muddy the waters to much.



    Coogan
    Posted - 02/20/2007 : 08:02:53 AM
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    Very interesting! It does muddy some waters, but will add to the understanding of the tgf markings. The original date of the LMG (1952) exceeds the accepted range for tgf K98k carbines. Hmmmm.........



    Kev UK
    Posted - 02/20/2007 : 08:27:07 AM
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    Kev UK
    Posted - 02/20/2007 : 11:06:41 AM
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    Glad you spotted the HK mark Coogan
    From an LMG point of view I have always pressumed that the HK and JK markings within a circle were applicable to ZB. Earlier seen on Czech breech blocks , piston extensions and magazines of ZB26 /ZB30/ ZB39 LMG's.
    On Czech ZB UK59 LMG's chambered for 7.62 x 51 the letters within a circle I have seen used in the same location are AK and IP.Mine is dated 1972.

    As a matter of interest relating to Czech factory codes the UK58/59 LMG's could be fitted with a 4x telescopic sight (cheers Robert) this is coded yal and dated 1962.
    yal (I have been told) relates to Optikotechna – Meopta Prerau - Prerov factory.

    While looking to find the code on the starter tab of the belt on my VZ52/57 LMG which is jpw I found it here -
    http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Ba...Headstamp.html
    as below -

    avm Unknown Czech factory (code found on fuzes)
    aym Povazske Strojarne, Narodny Podnin, Povazska-Bystrica
    bnt Unknown Czech factory (code found on cases)
    bxn Sellier & Bellot, Vlasim
    czo Weapons factory Vseten
    dtp Vlarske strojirny, Slaviein
    ena Policka´s machine works, Policka
    evr Powder filling plant in Nyoany
    fut Adamovske strojirny, Adamov
    gts Powder filling and ammo-assembling plant ZVS, Dubnica nad Vahom
    hsu Kovohuti Rokycany
    irv Weapon factory Bojkovice, now Zeveta Bojkovice, Bojkovice
    jpw Zbrojkova Vsetin, factory in Jablunka (code found on 30x210 Br-303 belt link)
    ndn Unknown Czech factory (code found on 9mm Luger cartridge cases)
    nma Powder manufacturer Syntesia, Pardubice-Semtin
    oma Unknown Czech factory (code found on 9mm Luger cartridge cases)
    uxa Zbrojovka Vlasim, Narodni Podnik, Vlasim
    whx Filling and recalibrating plant Nováky, Slovakia
    zyj Unknown Czech factory (code found on fuzes)

    Maybe fills a few gaps ?



    Rev. Two Bands
    Posted - 02/20/2007 : 9:05:10 PM
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    So, in other words, the Czech continued using the nifty German three-letter code system, with the same calm confidence that they continued building the German APC, the Bf 109 fighter (which, in spite of its horrendous engine, they managed to sell to the Israelis), the Me 262 jet-fighter, the Hetzer tank-hunter/destroyer, and many other useful items, either because they were set up for production, or because they had plenty of parts. Well into the 1950s they tried to follow their own course in military arms, as witnessed e g by the Vzor 52 semi-auto. It maybe also should be noted that the Czech/Bohemian fire-arms factories in German used to be "Waffenfabrik", not "Gewehrfabrik" (which in modern German tends to mean a gun-factory for civilian long-guns).



    bohemian
    Posted - 02/21/2007 : 9:41:51 PM
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    Like Kevin (cheers Kevin) has mentioned the HK markings shows up on War time and post war made parts of the Zb-26 and Zb-30 and its magazines. So I had always assumed that the HK marking was a Czech factory under German control during WWII. It did not surprise me to see it on an immediate post war Czech made rifle. Like DocAV has defined the tgf was just the code used by the Czechs when they started making more receivers. Kevin’s photo of one of his LMGs with the crossed swords 52 does muddy the waters a little bit but it only extends the use of the code a couple years and possibly the factory continued to make LMGs when the rifles and pistols were moved to the rid and she factories. The fact that a lot of the tgf marked rifles ended up in the DDR shouldn't be surprising as I think a lot of Russian capture and Russian allies put a lot of surplus stuff into the DDR when it needed weaponry. Everyone else was moving on with the SKS, Vz-52, AK and other new developments and pawned off their old wares on the newbie in need.

    Robert



    Coogan
    Posted - 02/22/2007 : 07:52:03 AM
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    The tgf mark, as far as I am concerned, is far from being settled.



    JIMMYC
    Posted - 02/28/2007 : 10:01:56 PM
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    Photos of my 1950 tgf K98K

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    Coogan
    Posted - 02/28/2007 : 10:07:15 PM
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    Outstanding pics! A rifle I would love to own. Thank you for sharing.



    Jim Petrie
    Posted - 02/28/2007 : 10:57:48 PM
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    Jimmy C, Great pics of a nice rifle.Great find, with the Jeem, Iraqi prop. markings. Two birds with one stone.I also have a tgf 1950, marked exactly as yours,circle T, circle hk, and crossed swords 5, but no Iracqi marks. Thanks for sharing.



    AndyBl
    Posted - 03/01/2007 : 05:22:20 AM
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    very nice piece, but there some parts on bolt of older probably Mauser production, the RW is a Mauser Oberndorf proof, E/63 could be then a pre 1939 proof. So the sights are not proofed? the red blueing speeks for reblueing? best regards,Andy
    PS swords 5? was there 5? should be date
    i examined the Krieghoff stamp on a rifle, it was joined together HK in circle,so looks different as this marking.

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    Edited by - AndyBl on 03/05/2007 07:35:56 AM
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    Last edited by Carcano; 10-30-2007 at 05:04 PM.

  2. #2
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    I am actually glad to see this again!

    I was thinking of this conversation some weeks ago and I had another question pop into my head....


    If the tgf coded rifles were indeed intended for the DDR why do they lack the DDR mark we see on M44 carbines? Was it due to the fact that the M44 carbines needed an identifier to "trace" them as the property of the DDR where as the tgf K98k rifles would not?
    Semper Fi,

    Mike
    Sergeant, USMCR 1997 - 2004
    Specialist, PA ARNG 2011 - Present
    Have a Remington M1891? Add your serial number here!

  3. #3
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    No mention made, but the mark in question does not appear on post war Czech Lion crested K98k's from assembled Nazi parts? These were produced for the Czech govt. forces at that time?
    Subvet

  4. #4
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    Default Continuing the picture series of 1950 tgf Kar98k

    The last five pictures from Jimmy C's previous posting could not be rendered due to the amount limit (maximum 12); I am now adding them here.

    Carcano

    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/JI...SC07878-01.jpg

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    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/JI...SC07926-01.jpg

    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/JI...SC07909-01.jpg

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  5. #5
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    Thanks for transfering this from the old boards!
    I never met a gun I didn't like!
    Dogs are better people than most people.

  6. #6
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    tgf is the factory code for Zbrojovka Brno , although weapons produced at the plant may well have ended up in use by the DDR this is co-incidental.
    The tgf mark can be found on arms that are Czech specific as the VZ52/57 LMG pictured in a post above.Czech specific in that in its origin guise as a VZ52 ( before modification to VZ52/57 - 7.62x39 ) it used the Czech only round of 7.62x45.The 7.62x45 round as far as I am aware was not used by any other Warsaw Pact country.

    I have added a few Czech factory codes below to the list allready posted can anyone add to the list please if you have any (or correct any) ?

    avm Unknown Czech factory (code found on fuzes)
    aym Povazske Strojarne, Narodny Podnin, Povazska-Bystrica
    bnt Unknown Czech factory (code found on cases)
    bxn Sellier & Bellot, Vlasim
    czo Weapons factory Zbrojovka Vseten
    dtp Vlarske strojirny, Slaviein
    ena Policka´s machine works, Policka
    evr Powder filling plant in Nyoany
    fut Adamovske strojirny, Adamov
    grv Konstrukta Brno
    gts Powder filling and ammo-assembling plant ZVS, Dubnica nad Vahom
    hsu Kovohuti Rokycany
    irv Weapon factory Bojkovice, now Zeveta Bojkovice, Bojkovice
    jpw Zbrojkova Vsetin, factory in Jablunka (code found on 30x210 Br-303 belt link)
    ndn Unknown Czech factory (code found on 9mm Luger cartridge cases)
    nma Powder manufacturer Syntesia, Pardubice-Semtin
    oma Unknown Czech factory (code found on 9mm Luger cartridge cases)
    rid - Ceska zbrojovka Strakonice
    she Ceska zbrojovka Uhersky Brod
    tgf Zbrojovka Brno
    uxa Zbrojovka Vlasim, Narodni Podnik, Vlasim
    whx Filling and recalibrating plant Nováky, Slovakia
    yal Meopta Prerau - Prerov factory
    zyj Unknown Czech factory (code found on fuzes)

    Probably allot more opinion / info left in this interesting thread ! :-)

    All the best Kevin

  7. #7
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    I think 'tgf' means 'Thank God it's Friday'! :D

  8. #8
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    As a side note other codes that may be encountered may refer to repairs made in specialized military repair facilities are indicated by a VOZ (VOP, OZ)letter code in an oval (according to the type of military repair facility) and the last two digits of the year in which the repair was made. Any other repairs of the same weapon are marked only by the last two digits of the year. These marks are located in accordance with the technical requirements for repairs of the specific type of weapon. Major modifications of the weapon are also marked (e.g. the U mark, identifying the modification of the 9mm pistol for safe use with Czech-made cartridges, is located on the body of the arm, in the ejection slot above the serial number of the arm).

    All the best Kevin

  9. #9
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    Hi guys I'm new here. I found this thread because I have just acquired a mint tgf k98 and I'm am doing some research. I got a mint tgf but some parts are made from left over war production. Let me bounce this one off you guys. My theory on the tgf code is this, tgf is a random code alloted to production batches based on the war time practice. Brno was was dot 43-45 and swp 45-postwar. Czechs were Israels biggest k98 supplier 1948-50. the Tzahal l is a rapidly growing by 1950, tgf rifles are coded 1950. But in 1950+ what happens? Israel gets a large quantity of FN produced K98ks with IDF crests. Czechs "produce" their rifles for an "order" placed by the DDR... I think there was a little pressure on the Czechs by Uncle Joe, not to sell Israel rifles among other weapons. This is just my take on the whole tgf production, has there been any 1951 tgf k98k?

  10. #10
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    TGF stands for Tchechische Gewehr Fabrik why TGF coded (and in German wording) as this was a 20K production contract for germany. the winter 98's had MANY left over receivers of DOU/SWP. due to the accual quality of German K98's there was a huge demand for German k98s (why some bought but deface the nazi making in some countries) is why post war they marked many with DOT1945 that was never a wartime code but just for sales. they even scrubbed the czech lions from receiver for out of country sales. the last ALMOST k98 was manufactured in the TGF 1950 contract. now you have to also remember Russia was selling off allot of there k98 capture refurbs also so czech was not the only supplier of k98 rifles.

    later
    vaughn

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    Quote Originally Posted by vaughn99 View Post
    TGF stands for Tchechische Gewehr Fabrik
    That is the most sensible explanation for the "tgf" code that I've seen.
    I Swear On My Life, And My Love Of It, That I Will Never Live For The Sake Of Another Man, Nor Ask Another Man To Live For Mine. - John Galt

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    Tschechische Gewehr Fabrik existed in Czechoslovakia not, is a shit name. Not even correct german.

  13. #13
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    I have a couple of post-war vz44 flare guns (barrel band at muzzle, gray phosphate finish, wooden grips) marked with "tgf" on both barrel and frame. Though Gaynor in his book FLARE GUNS & SIGNAL PISTOLS describes these as being East German, they clearly have the Czech crossed swords acceptance mark on their barrels. Yet another - most likely incorrect - connection between "tgf" and the DDR.
    Apes will not kill apes!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaughn99 View Post
    TGF stands for Tchechische Gewehr Fabrik why TGF coded (and in German wording) as this was a 20K production contract for germany. the winter 98's had MANY left over receivers of DOU/SWP. due to the accual quality of German K98's there was a huge demand for German k98s (why some bought but deface the nazi making in some countries) is why post war they marked many with DOT1945 that was never a wartime code but just for sales. they even scrubbed the czech lions from receiver for out of country sales. the last ALMOST k98 was manufactured in the TGF 1950 contract. now you have to also remember Russia was selling off allot of there k98 capture refurbs also so czech was not the only supplier of k98 rifles.

    later
    vaughn
    If you look at the previously posted Czech factory codes they are random and in no way stand for initials of factories coded.

    avm Unknown Czech factory (code found on fuzes)
    aym Povazske Strojarne, Narodny Podnin, Povazska-Bystrica
    bnt Unknown Czech factory (code found on cases)
    bxn Sellier & Bellot, Vlasim
    czo Weapons factory Zbrojovka Vseten
    dtp Vlarske strojirny, Slaviein
    ena Policka´s machine works, Policka
    evr Powder filling plant in Nyoany
    fut Adamovske strojirny, Adamov
    grv Konstrukta Brno
    gts Powder filling and ammo-assembling plant ZVS, Dubnica nad Vahom
    hsu Kovohuti Rokycany
    irv Weapon factory Bojkovice, now Zeveta Bojkovice, Bojkovice
    jpw Zbrojkova Vsetin, factory in Jablunka (code found on 30x210 Br-303 belt link)
    ndn Unknown Czech factory (code found on 9mm Luger cartridge cases)
    nma Powder manufacturer Syntesia, Pardubice-Semtin
    oma Unknown Czech factory (code found on 9mm Luger cartridge cases)
    rid - Ceska zbrojovka Strakonice
    she Ceska zbrojovka Uhersky Brod
    tgf Zbrojovka Brno
    uxa Zbrojovka Vlasim, Narodni Podnik, Vlasim
    whx Filling and recalibrating plant Nováky, Slovakia
    yal Meopta Prerau - Prerov factory
    zyj Unknown Czech factory (code found on fuzes)

    If you refer to Czech documentation it gives tgf as - "kod vyrobce Zbrojovka n.p. Brno,zavod 01,posleze ZJS Brno" which roughly translates as -
    'manufacturer code Zbrojovka n.p. Brno, Plant 01, then ZJS Brno' .
    tgf mark should be good until 1954.

    Like anyone trying to finish the last clue in a crossword by fitting in a word that just happens to fit it does not necessarily give the correct answer.

    As stated - tgf = Zbrojovka n.p. Brno, Plant 01

    ATB Kevin
    Last edited by KevUK; 03-30-2010 at 03:32 AM. Reason: Correction to spelling as per Andy B , it was 3.30 in the morning my time :-)

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    The correct name of location is Brno, so plant 1, Zbrojovka Brno,np. should be correct, all codes are used to end of 1993, maybe in czech republik later, but the partly arms production in Brno was moved to other plants in middle of 60ies.

  16. #16
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    your missing the XBK Czech code on your list for Optikotechna/Meopta from about 1949-very early 50's. later must of changed again to YAL probably due to Meopta name change?? or this could be the that after WWII when Srb & Stys Fabrik Praziser (BMK WWII) and Meopta became 1 optics manufactuer this was there assigned code for the products they were producting with in the company no solid info yet.

    later
    vaughn

  17. #17
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    Hi Vaughn, any additions or corrections with some details to the list would be most welcome :-)

    ATB Kevin

  18. #18
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    XBK is coded on post war ZF4 examples that are marked VZ43 (german G/K43). pics added. manufactuer is unknown but clearly has the Z1 czech swords and year of manufactuer. the second line had the model they appear to have called this scope OM-262
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails !Bj8wGHQ!Wk~$(KGrH&.jpg   !Bj8wHpg!mk~$(KGr&#7.jpg  

  19. #19
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    Vaughn,yes it looks like xbk is another to add cheers.I have also references for xbk to binoculars and compass.

    So as Czech codes start 48 xbk and then to yal for Meopta looks good for now ? (dates for change )

    Will have to update/ammend list !

    Other references to tgf and Czech 3 letter codes -


    This is a summary from page 21,of the Czech Reps report to the UN........full pdf -
    http://www.un-casa.org/CASACountryPr...l%20Report.pdf

    Kevin

  20. #20
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    Hello,

    you can add flak glass to the list of items XBK manufactured Post WWII. this is void of the crossed swords so probably pre 1948

    later
    vaughn
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails !BqIloG!Bmk~$(KGrHqYH-E!EuZZsGuutBLueg2P2Vg~~_12.jpg   !BqIlnDwBWk~$(KGrHqYH-EYEu,IBc6wYBLueg)Rj,!~~_12.jpg  

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