8 mm Mauser in 30-06 rifles.
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Thread: 8 mm Mauser in 30-06 rifles.

  1. #1
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    Default 8 mm Mauser in 30-06 rifles.

    I've read or heard numerous cases of rifle blow-ups by people accidentally using 8 mm Mauser ammo in a 30-06 chambered rifle. I was curious about this and now consider it a myth . I have 4-5 30-06's, a Springfield 1903-A3, Winchester 1895, Remington 721, and a 1935 M-98 Mauser. NONE of these rifles will even come close to chambering an 8 mm Mauser round. Most of them don't even come within an 1/8 inch of locking up. Even the lever gun can't force the round into the chamber. I really wonder how stories like this get started. Any thoughts????

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    Internet trolls and the like. Embellish here, exaggerate there, add a little soft steel lore and you’re on your way to internet historical archives. I for one don’t put credence into rumor or speculation, but to be on the safe side l never allow 8mm and .30-06 to be on the same range at the same time. Just an added safety practice I learned on the internet. 😂

    Quote Originally Posted by VWMAN View Post
    I've read or heard numerous cases of rifle blow-ups by people accidentally using 8 mm Mauser ammo in a 30-06 chambered rifle. I was curious about this and now consider it a myth . I have 4-5 30-06's, a Springfield 1903-A3, Winchester 1895, Remington 721, and a 1935 M-98 Mauser. NONE of these rifles will even come close to chambering an 8 mm Mauser round. Most of them don't even come within an 1/8 inch of locking up. Even the lever gun can't force the round into the chamber. I really wonder how stories like this get started. Any thoughts????

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    VWMan

    One of the enduring wives tales was enemy weapons could shoot US ammo but not vice versa. This was a common theme during the 50's at gun shows, migrated into lore when internet came on the scene and I also heard it said during Viet Nam War. Its entirely BS of course and you are most correct to throw the BS / Red flag on the play.

    Now never say never as I saw two young guys on firing line with a mallet hitting the bolt handle of their Model 98K Mauser (8mm Mauser) and when I came over to ask what the blazes was the problem, I was told the ammo would not chamber. I looked with amazement...they were trying to chamber a 270 Winchester into a 8mm ! Noting this "discrepancy" the two got glazed eyes and examined all their ammo...sure enough, they brought 270 Win to the range for their 8mm Mauser.

    I am sure others will provide similar stories of 8mm Mausers being fed the wrong ammo. And let us not forget 303 Savage for 303 British...not same thing but another myth on ammo compatibility.

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    Yeah, I've seen stupid stuff too, like somebody firing 6.5 Italian in a 6.5 Swede and other brainiac moves, but clearly the 8 mm in 06 rifles is a myth, as I said doesn't even come close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VWMAN View Post
    I've read or heard numerous cases of rifle blow-ups by people accidentally using 8 mm Mauser ammo in a 30-06 chambered rifle. I was curious about this and now consider it a myth . I have 4-5 30-06's, a Springfield 1903-A3, Winchester 1895, Remington 721, and a 1935 M-98 Mauser. NONE of these rifles will even come close to chambering an 8 mm Mauser round. Most of them don't even come within an 1/8 inch of locking up. Even the lever gun can't force the round into the chamber. I really wonder how stories like this get started. Any thoughts????
    A local gun shop owner told me how he'd sold a Mauser military rifle that had been re-barreled to 30-06 to a local fellow. This fellow's friend convinced him that it had to be 8mm Mauser so they found a box of ammo to shoot in it. The shop owner opened the box of ammo and showed me mangled cartridges as he described what happened. The last shell casing was empty. Seems that drinking was involved along with a hammer to get the bolt closed which they finally managed to do. The rifle wasn't damaged and the customer gave the remaining ammo to the shop owner since it didn't fit his rifle.

    Charlie was an amazing guy & I was lucky to have him as a friend. Little bit from his obit:


    Charlie was a man of many interests and of one singular passion ... shooting. During his 55 seasons with the Tri-County Rifle League, his team, the Whitehall Rifle Club, had a record of 300 wins and 1 loss. Charlie was an International Benchrest Shooter for 35 years. He served as secretary for the I.B.S. Association for two terms, and won the I.B.S. Nationals in 1976.

    1976 was a banner year for Charlie as a competitive shooter. He topped the Dunham's Bay Winter League that year, and became a World Record Holder for precision small group target shooting - Heavy Varmint Class. His international record held for 14 years.

    One of the moving forces in the Dunham's Bay Fish and Game Club, Charlie was in charge of its newsletter for a quarter century. He was also a proud member of the Whitehall Fish and Game Club, the N.Y.S. Rifle & Pistol Association, and the N.R.A.

    As owner of Hawks Corner Sport Shop in West Hartford, Charlie celebrated 50 years of business in 2008. He shared the North Country yarns heard over his gun shop counter in his regular column "Hawk's Corner" for the Barkeater magazine.
    https://poststar.com/lifestyles/anno...cc4c03286.html

    Last edited by wolfspotter; 03-06-2019 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Added info

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    Yes, it can be done. It depends on chamber tolerances. An 8x57 round will fit in a 30-06 rifle with a loose chamber. I just now grabbed an 8mm dummy round and tried it in an old Columbian 30-06 Mauser, and the bolt closed on it with minimal force. I tried it in a nice tight M1 Garand: no go, no way.

    Many years ago someone gave me a couple 8mm empties they had found at the range. They were U.S. commercial headstamp, but clearly fireformed in a 30-06 chamber. Apparently they didn't blow the gun up, and one could only attribute that to the fact that U.S. commercial ammo is traditionally loaded very light, and uses soft lead-and-copper bullets (compared to steel jacketed and/or cored military ammo).

    Scary stuff. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near someone pulling the trigger on that.

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    As to how this "urban myth/wives tale" (whatever you want to call it) got started, I think Hatcher did it.

    Seems to me that I recall reading in the Notebook that several of the incedents cited for blowing up the low numbered Springfield '03's were attributed to this.
    Of course, I wasn't there (and probably neither was Hatcher) but that's what the reports said so...........

    Fast forward 50 plus years, take the story out of context and out of proportion (sometimes way out) and, voila, instant myth.

    I'm going with Fatelk on this, sloppy chamber, etc, will allow it, sometimes and, no, I don't wish to be there when it does!
    Besides all that, NEVER underestimate a bubba with a hammer!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobM1919 View Post
    As to how this "urban myth/wives tale" (whatever you want to call it) got started, I think Hatcher did it.

    Seems to me that I recall reading in the Notebook that several of the incedents cited for blowing up the low numbered Springfield '03's were attributed to this.
    He did. based on official records. Of course we don't know the circumstances, which probably don't apply to all 8x57 in all .30-06 rifles. Maybe it was exceptionally skinny wartime emergency production ammunition and a generously chambered Springfield. Maybe they did use a mallet.Maybe someone brought all his intellectual faculties, and a twist drill to making a dual-purpose chamber. Maybe someone's executors didn't realise that he had adapted 8mm. cases to load, and grossly overload, .30-06. Maybe he heard a garbled account of someone only using .323 bullets, probably making the case-neck onto the bullet.

    People who have brought disaster upon themselves do sometimes produce garbled accounts, pr worse. Hatcher also describes someone nonchalantly leaving range, apparently having noticed anything untoward, with a piece of his shotgun barrel embedded in the range woodwork. Maybe the escape from death eroded his cognitive faculties, or maybe it was just that people do talk.

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    I knew a guy who fired 308 in the 30-06 Browning MG he had. "just blows out the case a little" he said. They looked like 45-70 cases ..... you could only just shake your head and stand back.

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    Another factor to consider is the existence of old M88 J-bore ammo. The neck dimension is slightly smaller and would fit easier in a 30-06 chamber.

    There are two factors preventing easy chambering of an 8mm in a 30-06 chamber. The first is the case neck width. Slightly undersized 8mm ammo and a sloppy 30-06 chamber makes for a really bad combination.

    The other factor is the 8mm bullet hitting the 30-06 throat. I just now dug an old J-bore round out of my collection and tried it in my M1 (with the trigger out- I'm not going to risk that kind of accident). It surprised me that it didn't come close to closing. I tapped the bolt a bit and it closed with a clunk. When I pulled it out again I realized that the brass had chambered easily, but the long, round-nose bullet had hit the bore throat. When I tapped it the bullet set back in the case and it closed completely. I felt bad for damaging a 100+ year old round, but they're not particularly rare or valuable.

    No, it's not a myth or old wives tale. Fortunately for us nowadays, chambers in modern rifles tend to be tighter, and J-bore ammo is quite hard to come by. I have to agree about this though: never underestimate Bubba and his determination with a rubber mallet.

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    I have a bunch of the .318 military ammo also, made in 1933. So I took one and tried it in, a Remington 721, FN. Mauser 1935, Winchester 1895, and a Springfield 1903/A3. Same results as with .323 ammo, not even close.Also, anybody closing a bolt or other action with a mallet or hammer is in a very special category. If a rifle chambered for 06 will chamber a 8 mm cartridge it's really screwed up.

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    Thanks, Caledonian, for the refresh on that, memory is not what it was and it's been a while since I read the Notebook.
    Your comments about the circumstances are spot on also.
    I assumed (when reading that section) that all things were on the up and up, thinking about some of the antics I got up to on army ranges causes me to rethink that position.
    No real reason to think that young men in the 1920's were any different!

    Curiously though, those same reports are used to validate the position that low numbered '03 receivers are not as tender as we were led to believe.
    For myself, I was always somewhat sceptical about that one, as the number of failures was small and the number of unexplained ones smaller still.
    Having said that though, I don't temp fate by owning one.
    Plenty of high number shooters out there.

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    this happened over 30 years ago, I was shooting on a range using a safn in .30-06, using surplus ammo, don't ask me how it happened but somehow an 8mm turk surplus round got in the mix. rifle fired, recoil was, how shall I put it? rather stout, rifle locked up solid. took it home, stripped it down (with much bad language and skinned knuckles) everything checked out, took it out the next week, no damage to the chamber, functioned just fine, but not something I would recommend. it did teach me to be very aware of what ammo is in boxes of surplus stuff, not a problem now in OZ as most surplus is long gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VWMAN View Post
    I have a bunch of the .318 military ammo also, made in 1933. So I took one and tried it in, a Remington 721, FN. Mauser 1935, Winchester 1895, and a Springfield 1903/A3. Same results as with .323 ammo, not even close.Also, anybody closing a bolt or other action with a mallet or hammer is in a very special category. If a rifle chambered for 06 will chamber a 8 mm cartridge it's really screwed up.
    As I said in my previous post, the long 8mm bullet is hitting the .30 cal bore throat. A determined person could rap the bolt with their palm, pushing the projectile back in the case and causing it to chamber. I demonstrated exactly this just this morning with an M1 Garand. It doesn't take a screwed up rifle, just a determined or seriously inattentive shooter. As eljay demonstrates with his story, it absolutely can happen under certain circumstances, and is most definitely not a myth, at least not entirely.

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    After reading this thread, I just tried chambering a 8mm steel cased round in my 30-06 Colombian 98 action Mauser. Bolt won't close, at least not with any reasonable force. Doesn't seem to be something one would do by mistake and not notice something is wrong, but I do believe that it can be done with enough motivation on a brass case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatelk View Post
    Another factor to consider is the existence of old M88 J-bore ammo. The neck dimension is slightly smaller and would fit easier in a 30-06 chamber.

    There are two factors preventing easy chambering of an 8mm in a 30-06 chamber. The first is the case neck width. Slightly undersized 8mm ammo and a sloppy 30-06 chamber makes for a really bad combination.

    The other factor is the 8mm bullet hitting the 30-06 throat. I just now dug an old J-bore round out of my collection and tried it in my M1 (with the trigger out- I'm not going to risk that kind of accident). It surprised me that it didn't come close to closing. I tapped the bolt a bit and it closed with a clunk. When I pulled it out again I realized that the brass had chambered easily, but the long, round-nose bullet had hit the bore throat. When I tapped it the bullet set back in the case and it closed completely. I felt bad for damaging a 100+ year old round, but they're not particularly rare or valuable.

    No, it's not a myth or old wives tale. Fortunately for us nowadays, chambers in modern rifles tend to be tighter, and J-bore ammo is quite hard to come by. I have to agree about this though: never underestimate Bubba and his determination with a rubber mallet.
    Rubber? Better than some, then.

    Yes, 318-bulleted 8mm. in a .30-06 might be casier to achieve and less dangerous that .323. That ought to improve it from very very inadvisable to very inadvisable.

    There is a third factor in fit between these cartridges, and perhaps the most dangerous of all. That is the likelihood of the chamber neck being too tight, and clamping the case neck onto the chamber with greater force than conventional chambering could achieve.

    That is extremely dangerous. Hatcher also describes the experience with tin-plated National Match bullets. These produced such a high bullet pull that they broke the testing machine. But if used as they came from the factory they didn't produce unduly high pressure. That, and the accidents, started when exceptionally gifted people started adding grease as a lubricant. Grease (like water) acts like a solid when things happen quickly enough. High-diving records nowadays almost always involve injury. The logical conclusion seems to be that bullets don't pull, or push, out of the case at all. The case expands from them, like a surgeon blowing into a rubber glove. How do you fancy making sure that the gases can't penetrate between case and bullet?

    Some other astounding behaviour is probably safe, once you have got the cartridge in without provoking a premature and unlocked ignition. I don't think there would be any danger in firing a .270 in an 8mm. chamber. Purpose, no, and danger no. Unless the bullet went extremely wild. That can be up as well as sideways, and the public are often found not far beyond range backstops these days.

    Another point made by General Hatcher is that using a short shoulder-headspaced cartridge, such as .308 in a .30-06 chamber, may not present a genuine headspace problem at all. If the case is held close to the breech face by the extractor, it will be expanded but not moved forward. Accuracy is unlikely to be really good, but quite possibly as acceptable as, say, .45-70 in a .45-90 chamber.


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Marlin 1892 and its .32 cartridges.jpg 
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    Here are the cartridges Marlin recommended for late versions of their 1892 rifle, furnished with interchangeable rimfire and centrefire firing-pins. The outside-lubricated .32 rimfires had gone inside-lubricated, and I believe the groove diameter of the barrel was reduced to match. Mine is certainly .307in. as Marlin specified it, exactly right for the inside of the case. But they made no such change to the short cartridges, and I believe that was because the smaller-diameter bullets could tilt before leaving the Long Rifle chamber.

    Old wives' tales aren't confined to old wives. But I wouldn't precisely describe the danger of low-model Springfields as one. They are less strong than the later ones, but thousands of them have given a lot of uneventful shooting with standard ammunition. They are more vulnerable to oddities of ammunition or procedure. But those are things the modern shooter, applying normal intelligence to the use of modern commercial ammunition or components, is unlikely to encounter.

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    Yes, indeed, the low numbered single heat treated receivers are (or so I believe) less strong (or maybe elastic would be a better word) but, as has been noted, many have given yeoman service for many years.

    Ammo quality during the war years (and after) was a constant issue, so much so that Hatcher wrote extensively about it.
    IIRC, many of the reports of damaged receivers were attributed to faulty ammo, in the proper caliber so no need to search too hard for other reasons.

    FWIW, I had a sportsterized '03 come across my bench several years back for general clean up after a bout of long term storage.
    It had been rebarreled to .270.
    Turned out to be a low number receiver.
    Upon cleanup I noticed that the boltface had a substantial amount of setback, questioning the owner I discovered that it had been his dad's rifle and that the reloading process used by them good old boys was eccentric (to say the least).
    Apparently there was no powder measure involved, just fill the case with whatever powder was selected, seat the bullet and go.
    By my lights that rifle had had an unknown number of proof loads (plus some, maybe) fired through it and had not failed.
    I still would not test fire it though, I like my body parts where they are, Thank You!

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    As a long term machinist I understand the story of the low-number Springfield's well, many of the early ones were perfectly safe, but as Hatcher described when production ramped up for WW1 inexperienced people were overheating the receivers and in effect burning them so that they were very brittle. When he talked about dropping a bad receiver on the floor and having it shatter I was most impressed. So the military did the smart thing and stopped using the low number rifles. Once steel is over heated like they were there is no good fix to repair them. It must have been quite a feeling to have a rifle disintegrate in your hands. VWMAN.

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    Read once long ago...?
    A)chambers in shotguns, rifles got work hardened even more over its life time of shooting!
    B)read also also: lube in chambers did reduced the casualty effects of brass being able to
    “soldierly, purposely grasp” by friction chambers during expansion!
    Thus causing more “back thrush recoil” pressures (that should be contained by chamber frictions)...
    now imparted on bolt face and lugs.

    This read long ago...so I never leave oily storage oils, molybdenum, cleaners in chambers when going to shoot..<>< Dan
    "Christ’s Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caledonian View Post
    Rubber? Better than some, then.

    Yes, 318-bulleted 8mm. in a .30-06 might be casier to achieve and less dangerous that .323. That ought to improve it from very very inadvisable to very inadvisable.
    Don't get me wrong; I wasn't saying it was an acceptable idea, in any universe. I wouldn't want to be on the same range with anyone who did!

    As to improper heat treating, this reminds me of something I did when I was young, as a teenager on the farm. I needed a shovel and couldn't find one. I rummaged through the junk pile behind the shop and found a shovel head with a broken-off piece of handle still in the socket, as well as another handle. I tried prying it out, then drilling it out; it just wasn't coming out. I then got the bright idea to burn it out.

    I got out the acetylene torch, fired it up, and burned the wood. It burned hot as coal and the shovel socket glowed cherry red. I threw it in the rain puddle outside to cool it off. I brought it inside and put it in the bench vise to work on it. The socket was bent a little so I hit it with a hammer to pound the dent out so I could put the new handle in. Yep, you guessed it- it shattered like glass!

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    No, shotgun Chambers do not "work harden".
    The typical steel used has a tensile strength of over 60,000psi.
    It absolutely ignores 12,000 psi shotgun shells.
    Some of us shotgunners fire more shells in a year than many rifles fire in a lifetime. Shotgun barrels routinely see 6 figures of shells.
    What turns a shotgun into a wall hanger is a worn Aluminum receiver, or broken unavailable parts like springs, firing pins, or loose lockup in crack-barrels.
    I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.

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    I didn’t think so....but read it in a very early gun mag..
    "Christ’s Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatelk View Post
    Don't get me wrong; I wasn't saying it was an acceptable idea, in any universe. I wouldn't want to be on the same range with anyone who did!

    As to improper heat treating, this reminds me of something I did when I was young, as a teenager on the farm. I needed a shovel and couldn't find one. I rummaged through the junk pile behind the shop and found a shovel head with a broken-off piece of handle still in the socket, as well as another handle. I tried prying it out, then drilling it out; it just wasn't coming out. I then got the bright idea to burn it out.

    I got out the acetylene torch, fired it up, and burned the wood. It burned hot as coal and the shovel socket glowed cherry red. I threw it in the rain puddle outside to cool it off. I brought it inside and put it in the bench vise to work on it. The socket was bent a little so I hit it with a hammer to pound the dent out so I could put the new handle in. Yep, you guessed it- it shattered like glass!
    You are right as regards the extreme unwiseness of firing .318 bullets through a .308 grooved bore. If it could be done without compressing the case neck onto the bullet. I think you would more likely than not get away with it. But "more likely than not" isn't good enough. What would you... I beg your pardon, what would some hypothetical person... get for it anyway? The chance to say on YouTube "I did it, and it never did me any harm"?

    A lot of shovels are made of mild steel, which won't harden, but some will. There are four ways rifle steel can go wrong, other than using the wrong steel. It can be hardened and inadequately annealed, like your shovel. It can be inadequately hardened, either by not getting hot enough or by not being quenched fast enough. Or it can be softened by excessively hot annealing. All of these can be put right by simply repeating the process, although it risks distortion. I would suspect that those who reharden receivers professionally have a steel mandrel made to fit the bolt way and prevent warping.

    The fourth way is burning of the steel, which literally means burning the carbon out of it by overheating. This doesn't make it hard, but rather soft and crumbly, and it is irreversible, short of returning it as scrap to the steelmaking process.

    When I turned a P14 Enfield into a .300H&H, I watched very closely as I drilled the receiver ring for scope mounts. Extruding two long, wiry chips precluded all these possibilities.

    There is no simple relationship between psi in pressure on a surface, and psi in tensile strength per square inch of cross-section. Shotguns have also been made of all sorts of steel, from mostly wrought iron on up. But yes, most of them are much stronger than they need to be, particularly in the forward parts, where only the need to resist denting from outside prevents them from being paper-thin.

    The best book I know on shotgun technology is Sir Gerald Burrard's three-volume "The Modern Shotgun". It is only updated to the 1960s, but then so are shotguns, except for production economies. He investigated some 500 shotgun failures as a forensic examiner and insurance assessor, which produced no fatalities and only four injuries - although that is another thing you wouldn't want to count upon. Basing his calculations on a typical 2½in. game cartridge of the period, and barrel steels running from mild to what the mid-century considered good, he and a Captain Noble (no Nobel) found that a well designed and unimpaired barrel was unlikely to stretch the inner layers of the barrel steel beyond their elastic limit if it was totally plugged as little as three or four inches from the breech face... Don't try this at home.

    True work-hardening won't affect a barrel in any conventional material. There is another kind of strengthening, though, known as frettage or autofrettage, which may have a not entirely negligible effect. The inner layers stretch more than the outside, and if they do so and the outer ones don't, the latter clench more tightly upon them. It is rather like the shrink-fitting of successive steel jackets on an artillery tube, instead of just relying on a close fit.

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    It' not the 8mm bullet diameter, or pushing it into the leed. What occurs is that mouth of the case may be jammed

    tight by the throat . If the case neck can't open pressure soars. Many 30/06 will chamber an 8mm

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    VWMAN, good point about the pre-war production of the '03's, had not thought of that.
    Evident though, once you think on it, didn't start having issues until the big ramp up for the war.
    Goes along with the problems in ammo production, too.

    As a sidebar, I'm currently reading a book about the great influenza pandemic, as an explanation of how it got so bad, so fast, the author illustrates many of the attitudes that were spoon fed (sometimes, force fed) to the general public.
    With that sort of mentality, I can see where a "good enough" attitude would conflict with quality craftsmanship.
    Truth be told, it would be difficult to sort out which attitude would be considered more "treasonous" and, by this account, they would have looked at it just that way.

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    I used to know a small gun dealer. His brother acquired a "demilled" 03 Springfield. Ya'll may recall them. Bolt welded shut or chamber welded or something like that. It was one of the "low number" receivers. He put it back to working order and when firing full power 30-06, it blew up on him. I don't know if he was injured or not.

    Bob, don't know if the book you're reading covers it or not, but Parkinson's Disease ran rampant in the survivors of that influenza pandemic. For a while, researchers were wondering if the disease would more or less cease to exist after that cohort passed.
    NRA Post Beyond the After Life Member -- Vertrouw op God en je Mauser

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    Don't know yet, Dr.Hess, only about half way through.
    The author broke the story into segments so that the modern (relatively so, anyway) reader would understand the state of medicine during that era and then how viruses mutate, then gave a brief biography of the various doctors and researchers that were vitally involved in the investigations.
    Interesting reading for those with an interest, rather dry otherwise.
    Interspersed through all of that are glimpses of the general attitude of the population and the PR efforts that the government used to steer that public into what they considered the proper mindset.

    As far as the blown up '03, could have been anything, there are many reasons to relegate a rife to "DP Only" status.
    Truly hope your buddy wasn't hurt by it.

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    https://archive.org/details/TM9-2210/page/n11

    TM 9-2210 Small Arms Accidents, Malfunctions And Their Causes, 1942

    Page 24,
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Screen-Shot-2016-02-09-at-11_1552367883787.43.26-PM-e1455079628495.png  


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    Just for the record I have two 03's both will chamber an 8mm with no effort.

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    I was thumbing through Jerry Kuhnhausen's shop manual last night and came across the section on blown up rifles. There was one where a 8x57 had been shot in a 30-06.
    NRA Post Beyond the After Life Member -- Vertrouw op God en je Mauser

  32. #31
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    I'm late to this party, but will give you my 2 cents. About 40 years ago, a friend bought an 03 Springfield at a gun show. He wanted to shoot it in the worst way, so we headed to a nearby range a couple days later. It was snowing and blowing so he shot the rifle out of the passenger window of my '69 Mercury Montego. He had a bunch of loose rounds in a cigar box and after about 5-6 shots,one recoiled much harder and when he ejected the case, it was obviously shorter and blown out to fit the chamber. The headstamp was a commercial 8 m/m case. it wasn't until some time later that we learned about "low numbers" and realized how lucky we were. I didn't pull the trigger but I was there.

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    good thing it was American commercial ammo, had it been full on military ammo with the 198 (or thereabout) grain projectile, things may have gone horribly sideways for you both.

    Still, lady luck smiled upon you that day...........

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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	3381389along with the thought of "if it chambers it must be OK", this .35 Remington cartridge was fired in a 6.5 m/m Japanese Arisaka. It was before my time but my uncle gave me the case as a reminder to not do anything stupid. The thought of that .35 caliber bullet going down a .264 bore gives one pause.

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    That's "Power Swaging".
    I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.

  36. #35

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    There is a reason I hate 300 Blackout rounds. With the force of the spring on an AR, it can chamber a 300 BO in a 223/5.56 chamber. Many times it will blow up. Sometimes it will swage that 30 cal bullet down to .224. They sure are long after being swaged.

    For my friends that have 300 Blackout rifles, I recommend for them to buy red anodized magazines for the 300 BO. It makes it harder to mix them up.

  37. #36
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    I need to get some dedicated blackout magazines myself. For one thing the .300 BO rounds fit easier in them, but mostly for safety. It's easy to think "I'd never make that mistake", but you never know. I used exclusively long, cast bullets in mine, with a good crimp, and they simply will not chamber in a 5.56 chamber (I've tried it with a dummy round to prove to myself). BUT, what about a cracked case that allowed bullet setback, or something else along those lines? Better safe than sorry.

    Along the same lines, here is a piece of brass I picked up at the range a few days ago. It's a .44 Magnum, but as you can see by the shape, someone fired it in a .45 Colt.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    .44 mag in a .45 Colt would not be a good thing. Back in the day when boxes of ammo were put out on shelves, I once saw a .44 mag cartridge in a box of .45 Colts that I opened the end flap on. I called it to the store owners attention and he immediately opened a box of .44s the next pile over. Sure enough, someone pulled one of each out to "compare" and then put them back in the wrong boxes. Pays to be diligent and take nothing for granted.

  39. #38
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    Shot 3006 in a 300 mag. Once...have casing some where?
    blue flood plate out of gun...
    hit center of target one inch higher then establish 3 shot group.
    "Christ’s Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

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    That's interesting, my 03-A3 won't even come close, even with a .318 dia. round, but it is brand new.
    VWMAN.

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    Most firearms accidents are things you will get away with a few times before it lets go. Some people will have published it on YouTube by then. A lot of them are alsodue to a combination of factors, each of which you would have got away with on its own.

    In the 1903 design one of them is a feed cone that supports the bottom rear of the case less well than many other designs. This, or reaming it a shade deeper than in other examples of the same rifle, may be one of these factors.

  42. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatelk View Post
    I need to get some dedicated blackout magazines myself. For one thing the .300 BO rounds fit easier in them, but mostly for safety. It's easy to think "I'd never make that mistake", but you never know. I used exclusively long, cast bullets in mine, with a good crimp, and they simply will not chamber in a 5.56 chamber (I've tried it with a dummy round to prove to myself). BUT, what about a cracked case that allowed bullet setback, or something else along those lines? Better safe than sorry.

    Along the same lines, here is a piece of brass I picked up at the range a few days ago. It's a .44 Magnum, but as you can see by the shape, someone fired it in a .45 Colt.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    There has obviously been no catastrophic failure there. It was most likely fired in a modern revolver. A Colt SAA might have been different.

    It is interesting that even with a .44 Magnum the case isn't swollen where the brass is thick but not solid.

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    With the much undersize bullet and typical slow burning powder of the .44 mag, this situation probably didn't reach critical pressures.

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    That’s true. The .43 bullet probably just rattled down the .45 bore, with much of the gas blowing by.

    Probably the same reason the fools on YouTube get away with shooting 9x19 Luger ammo in a 9x18 Makarov pistol, but I’m sure not going to try it in my gun. &#x1f642;

  45. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatelk View Post
    That’s true. The .43 bullet probably just rattled down the .45 bore, with much of the gas blowing by.

    Probably the same reason the fools on YouTube get away with shooting 9x19 Luger ammo in a 9x18 Makarov pistol, but I’m sure not going to try it in my gun. 🙂
    On purpose? You think the fact the 9x19 round is TOO LONG for the magazine would be a clue, huh?
    "Saigon Tea, 60 P, you no buy you di di DI!"

  46. #45
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    The norwegian armymuseum has pics. of a couple 8x57 cases that have been shot in a 30-06 chamber. It sayes that the shooter shot four rounds before he realized the error. The rifle did not explode. The norwegian armed forces had K98K rifles in both 8mm and 30-06 after the war, so a mix up of ammo was possible.
    https://digitaltmuseum.no/011022715313/hylse-762x57

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