8 mm Mauser in 30-06 rifles. - Page 2
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Thread: 8 mm Mauser in 30-06 rifles.

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ammolab View Post
    On purpose? You think the fact the 9x19 round is TOO LONG for the magazine would be a clue, huh?

    I had to search for a while on youtube, but I finally found the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGRtEFH7VFg

    I about choked when I saw it. Seems really stupid to me. He clearly knows it's wrong, but pulls the trigger anyway. The slide isn't even completely closed, but being a blowback it will fire anyway. I'm assuming that the only reason it doesn't blow up on him is because the .355" 9x19 bullet barely even touched the .365" bore and doesn't build up pressure. Even so, it seems really foolish to me.

    I'm constantly amazed at the stupid things people can get away with, without serious injury. I've done some foolhardy things in my years myself, I suppose, but I do think I always knew better that to do stuff like that. I once fired a whole magazine full of .380acp through a 9x18 CZ82 on accident, felt real stupid as I picked up the bulged brass, as it suddenly dawned on me why I couldn't hit anything.

  2. #47
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    People who do not shoot at all or do not shoot much might be surprised by what happens when actual physical destructive tests are performed.
    I supplied some scrapped bolts to a shooter in Alaska who tested my junk Carcano bolts in his junk Carcano barreled action in a controlled environment. He also tested some ruined 1893 and 1896 Mauser receivers.

    The Carcano barreled receiver was a 7.35 Carcano that he rechambered to 30-06 by grinding down a .30-06 chamber reamer pilot to fit the smaller 7.35 bore. To keep a long story short he tested with cases full of powder including 3031 and 4198 without a problem. A case full of 2400 did some damage to the bolt but the receiver ring remained intact.
    He then shot an 8X57 round in the same rifle with another bolt without any damage. Finally he did the same with a .35 Rem with the bullets being forced through the smaller bore.
    The worst case tests resulted in broken locking lugs on the Carcano and the right rear of the receiver being broken off when impacted by the bolt handle after the locking lugs failed. The Carcano receiver ring held through all of this.

    Similar testing with the 2 Mauser actions eventually blew the top off of the receivers and broke the split locking lug of the single 1893 bolt that he used. Vaporized brass coated the head of the Mauser bolt.
    All of this testing was done inside a large pipe enclosure inside a shed. All rounds were fired by remote control.
    The parts that were sacrificed were damaged beyond repair or had been drilled full of scope mounting holes by some previous bubba.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by M2HB View Post
    There is a reason I hate 300 Blackout rounds. With the force of the spring on an AR, it can chamber a 300 BO in a 223/5.56 chamber. Many times it will blow up. Sometimes it will swage that 30 cal bullet down to .224. They sure are long after being swaged.

    For my friends that have 300 Blackout rifles, I recommend for them to buy red anodized magazines for the 300 BO. It makes it harder to mix them up.
    I have specific magazines for my .458 socom. Not that I think I'd ever mix THOSE up but it seemed like the thing to do.

  4. #49
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    98 FI in 270... nice gun..
    This rifle was brought to me destroyed (by wifes relative)
    ď300 savage forcedĒ to chamber ...(older men)

    Him and a friend went through a cigar box of shells trying...different ones till they could get bolt closed on one?

    writting, shadowed stamped on bolt face in brass..particals ..300
    Both lugs sheared,
    safety lug, dug into reciever...
    stock busted,
    mag blown out...
    barrel you could screw of by hand..
    rear sight gone?
    Had to hammered bolt open....
    shooter hospitalized...burns stuff blown in face..arm.

    nothing but trigger and firing pin section could be used, action screws butt plate....

    my answer nope canít fix this your going to have to buy your son another one...
    gave to young son to play army with...
    lost in the woods...and in time...<>< Dan
    "Christís Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

  5. #50

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    sorry chaps but it can be done as i actually did it last weekend.
    i have a parker hale super 1200 deluxe in 30-06 which shoots 168 gn smk beautifully.
    well i had to buy the latest green tipped version tmk i believe but i reloaded them to 3.33 inches as per sierra mobile data software.
    i forgot the last time i loaded them shorter and with the rcbs competition die.
    well this session they were just a tad too long and needed a little bit of ummmph to chamber but shot a 1 inch group at 100 yds.
    unknowing to me they was another round in the box which i thought was the original smk round that i must have left in .
    i chambered in perfectly with no hard bolt closing , nothing.....it fired just like a normal 30-06 round that i been shootin earlier....its only when i looked through the scope and i couldnt see the hole........i tried to extract but the bolt was stuck hard.
    at first i thought i had resized a 8mm case and fitted a .308 bullet as i had been making 8mm out of 30-06 cases a few months back.
    luckily they was a hammer nearby and we got the bolt open
    they is no damage to the rifle just a shiny mark on the bolt face .....and the primer had blown out of the case and dropped in the mag well.
    i took the mod off and the exit hole is unmarked.
    after checking the rifle over and the bolt lugs for damage we could chamber and extract a 30-06 round.
    i took the mod off and chambered a 30-06 round and it fired perfectly........it was 6 inches to the right at point of aim.
    i will get the rifle checked over by a gunsmith but they is still rifling and it looks ok.
    i do have a 8mm verguiero which i use sierra 175 gn grey tip bullets which i think are prohunters.
    the round i chamber was a plain fmj of 175gn which i pulled many years ago from surplus ammo.
    i do have the case to prove thjs happened as it looks like a 8mm mauser with a shorter neck of the 30-06.
    i will post a pic if anyone wants to see it.
    my parker hale must have a loose chamber as when i got home i found another 8mm round and without a bolt inserted i pushed it in the chamber and it fitted flush...
    i didnt believe it could chamber before it happened but it does in my rifle....first time i done this in 30 years of shooting but it shows the parker hale is a strong action

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by loiner1965 View Post
    sorry chaps but it can be done as i actually did it last weekend.
    i have a parker hale super 1200 deluxe in 30-06 which shoots 168 gn smk beautifully.
    well i had to buy the latest green tipped version tmk i believe but i reloaded them to 3.33 inches as per sierra mobile data software.
    i forgot the last time i loaded them shorter and with the rcbs competition die.
    well this session they were just a tad too long and needed a little bit of ummmph to chamber but shot a 1 inch group at 100 yds.
    unknowing to me they was another round in the box which i thought was the original smk round that i must have left in .
    i chambered in perfectly with no hard bolt closing , nothing.....it fired just like a normal 30-06 round that i been shootin earlier....its only when i looked through the scope and i couldnt see the hole........i tried to extract but the bolt was stuck hard.
    at first i thought i had resized a 8mm case and fitted a .308 bullet as i had been making 8mm out of 30-06 cases a few months back.
    luckily they was a hammer nearby and we got the bolt open
    they is no damage to the rifle just a shiny mark on the bolt face .....and the primer had blown out of the case and dropped in the mag well.
    i took the mod off and the exit hole is unmarked.
    after checking the rifle over and the bolt lugs for damage we could chamber and extract a 30-06 round.
    i took the mod off and chambered a 30-06 round and it fired perfectly........it was 6 inches to the right at point of aim.
    i will get the rifle checked over by a gunsmith but they is still rifling and it looks ok.
    i do have a 8mm verguiero which i use sierra 175 gn grey tip bullets which i think are prohunters.
    the round i chamber was a plain fmj of 175gn which i pulled many years ago from surplus ammo.
    i do have the case to prove thjs happened as it looks like a 8mm mauser with a shorter neck of the 30-06.
    i will post a pic if anyone wants to see it.
    my parker hale must have a loose chamber as when i got home i found another 8mm round and without a bolt inserted i pushed it in the chamber and it fitted flush...
    i didnt believe it could chamber before it happened but it does in my rifle....first time i done this in 30 years of shooting but it shows the parker hale is a strong action
    That 175gr. 8mm surplus bullet sounds like a German or Czech SME (iron core) bullet. It must have take a butt load of psi to swage that pill down to .308 and move it down the bore! OUCH!
    "Saigon Tea, 60 P, you no buy you di di DI!"

  7. #52
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    This reminds me of the whole France moving away from 8mm Lebel the first 7.5 French was 7.5x58 and apparently that could chamber an 8mm Mauser cartridge which they had from war reparations and captures. So they ended up shaving the new cartridge to 7.5x54mm.

  8. #53

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    it was 179 gns milsurp headstamped fn69.
    the case i used in the incident was a r&p so was reloaded a while back as i only use norma / FNM target cases now and smk softpoints.
    i must have been tidying up and just put the round in the box etc.....hopefully here is the pic of the reformed case which i call 8mm -06 loiner inproved
    edit.....sorry pic did not rotate as expected.....the primer pocket measures .214 across.
    all i can think off is the chamber of the parker hale is loose and as a long taper throat.
    shoots lovely with 168gns smk.
    i might try and do a youtube vid of it chambering a dummy round of 8mm just to show how easy it is on this particular rifle .
    will borescope the bore and see if i can see any damage as with mk 1 eyeball it looks ok and then i take it to my gunsmith buddy to have a look at once this virus clears up over here.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails mauser.JPG  


  9. #54
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    Parker O. Ackley has some commentary on incorrect ammo and mismatches of ammo and guns in his two-volume book on cartridges, guns and preloading. If I can find the books I'll steal some of his findings. It seems like that set has a chapter on strength of actions tests he performed after the War, and that he found the Japanese Type 38 (the 6.5 Arisaka, a/k/a ".25 Jap") was the strongest of the military actions. Which seems to have surprised him.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

  10. #55
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    Once put 3006 in a 300 mag..ammo handed to me I was single loading..
    blew magazine off gun..Voere Tyrol..feather weight..
    two inches high both dead center 180’s..
    load it was!
    rauls out of Michigan got me a trigger housing group $65 bucks mistake!
    "Christís Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

  11. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by DK PHILLIPS View Post
    Once put 3006 in a 300 mag..ammo handed to me I was single loading..
    blew magazine off gun..Voere Tyrol..feather weight..
    two inches high both dead center 180’s..
    load it was!
    rauls out of Michigan got me a trigger housing group $65 bucks mistake!
    unfortunately we are only human and mishaps can happen....luckily no one is hurt

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    Parker O. Ackley has some commentary on incorrect ammo and mismatches of ammo and guns in his two-volume book on cartridges, guns and preloading. If I can find the books I'll steal some of his findings. It seems like that set has a chapter on strength of actions tests he performed after the War, and that he found the Japanese Type 38 (the 6.5 Arisaka, a/k/a ".25 Jap") was the strongest of the military actions. Which seems to have surprised him.
    I was going to bring this up , although slightly off topic. I remember reading or being told they chambered 30-06 in a 6.5 Arisaka and it fired ok,This seems cpmpletely impossible given the 63 mm of the 06 case

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmoline 1 View Post
    I was going to bring this up , although slightly off topic. I remember reading or being told they chambered 30-06 in a 6.5 Arisaka and it fired ok,This seems cpmpletely impossible given the 63 mm of the 06 case
    There must have run a 30-06 chamber reamer in there first.

    This may be the story:

    “ In Bolt Action Rifles, Frank de Haas wrote about a Type 38 that was re-chambered to .30-06. It was a 6.5mm with a .256-inch-diameter bore, and the 0.308-inch bullet, under pressures into six digits, had to be squeezed down the bore. The cases were intact, and the rifle never developed mechanical flaws. Its recoil was outrageous, and the report cannon-like. Its owner killed a deer with it. Impressed, the National Rifle Association ran more tests on this particular Type 38.”

    A report of this rifle is in the May 1959 American Rifleman magazine
    "Saigon Tea, 60 P, you no buy you di di DI!"

  14. #59
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    Loaner..I have the case blow out to size...
    you know I sold that Austria light weight..lost my confidence in it when pulling trigger!
    "Christís Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

  15. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by DK PHILLIPS View Post
    Loaner..I have the case blow out to size...
    you know I sold that Austria light weight..lost my confidence in it when pulling trigger!
    will test mine out as soon as can to see if its still accurate......surprisingly i still have rifling lol

  16. #61

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    right an update.....
    i basically chambered a sized 8 mm case no problem.
    i then made up 3 dummy rounds
    1 x 198 gn bullet at 3.23
    1 x 178gn bullet at .3.23
    and 1 x 175 gn tracer at 3.23 and not one of them would chamber.....the bolt wouldnt attempt to close even when i reduced the overall length of each dummy round.
    i am completely gobsmacked as to what happened as the case was definately 8mm r&p as i still have it and the neck and shoulder have been altered to suit the 30-06 chamber.
    no way would a .308 bullet fit a .323 case neck without falling out and i even tried to neck size the case to see if it would fit.
    also the case came out completely clean and no blowback signs of soot on the neck.
    i found another case which i think was identical to the one fired and dismantled it......the bullet was 178gns and the powder weight was 44 gns.These rounds were military surplus with a case stamp of fn49, all i did was measured each case volume and made all exactly the same.
    sorry chaps i am stumped......all i can say is....the case was a 8mm ....projectile and powder weight unknown......rifle undamaged but case is stretched and primer blown out

  17. #62

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    conclusion
    the only possible conclusion i can come up with is i loaded a 8mm mauser with a lightly seated bullet of .323 that was pushed back into the neck on chambering thus enabling the round to chamber

  18. #63
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    It isn't as I went to a military museum (FATHER IN LAW) and they had a german 792 jammed into the chamber of a springfield on display. No closing that bolt without a hammer. they didn't want to remove it so I cut the striker.
    Don't complain I work on your airplanes

  19. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ammolab View Post
    There must have run a 30-06 chamber reamer in there first.

    This may be the story:

    “ In Bolt Action Rifles, Frank de Haas wrote about a Type 38 that was re-chambered to .30-06. It was a 6.5mm with a .256-inch-diameter bore, and the 0.308-inch bullet, under pressures into six digits, had to be squeezed down the bore. The cases were intact, and the rifle never developed mechanical flaws. Its recoil was outrageous, and the report cannon-like. Its owner killed a deer with it. Impressed, the National Rifle Association ran more tests on this particular Type 38.”

    A report of this rifle is in the May 1959 American Rifleman magazine
    hello, ammolab. i recall reading this article many years ago, as well. i do not discount the story as i have heard stories of other friends who have done similar destructive shooting tests. the big question mark for me now, is how they used a 30-06 reamer going into a 6,5 bore. i guess it would have had to be a reamer that didn't have a pilot. i saw some reamers like that on ebay recently.

  20. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    hello, ammolab. i recall reading this article many years ago, as well. i do not discount the story as i have heard stories of other friends who have done similar destructive shooting tests. the big question mark for me now, is how they used a 30-06 reamer going into a 6,5 bore. i guess it would have had to be a reamer that didn't have a pilot. i saw some reamers like that on ebay recently.
    The article American Rifleman stated they ground the pilot down before rechambering the rifle to The 30-06 cartridge.
    "Saigon Tea, 60 P, you no buy you di di DI!"

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