Soviet WW2 Bino / Optics marking qustion
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Thread: Soviet WW2 Bino / Optics marking qustion

  1. #1
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    Default Soviet WW2 Bino / Optics marking qustion

    Old but great thread(above in the sticky section so a repeat here so it would beClick image for larger version. 

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ID:	3455861 seen)....I just picked up a wartime Bino set and was wondering about the markings.....in 1941 this would be a Leningrad GOMZ marking but they normally have a Hammer/Sickle above the unique stamping. I've seen lower serial numbered ones of this type....so was the HS stamp dropped later in '41 or was this optional (very non Soviet optional anything)… N 41073016. Great set of Bino's optically btw and the case must be from the later ('55) refurb. The yellow covers are cool and would be helpful in Fog or low light

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    It's a heavy refurb. The Soviet Hammer and sickle symbol was supposed to be on the left prism cover.

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    Looks like a Kazan marking to me.

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    Not a Kazan... I have scopes marked with their symbol.... am going by this...it is refurbed but no markings have been removed to my eye.

    OTOH...you may be correct....I'd not seen this marking as a KAZAN before but it is also listed......I was only aware of the 'other' Kazan symbol.

    https://sovietarmorer.wordpress.com/2015/09/12/markings-of-soviet-binoculars-before-1945/

    Still...if you go to the sticky above of Optics plant markings the Kazan is different than this one and the GOMZ plant is the same??


    Last edited by reiver1; 07-08-2019 at 11:30 PM.

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    It's GOMZ, not KOMZ (Kazan).

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    I thought GOMZ too....and the Russian that sent it said the same....I wondered as most of the examples I've seen also have the Hammer/sickle above the factory mark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reiver1 View Post
    I thought GOMZ too....and the Russian that sent it said the same....I wondered as most of the examples I've seen also have the Hammer/sickle above the factory mark.
    The Soviet Hammer Sickle star symbol was removed (or covered by black paint) during refurb. If you remove the black paint, you may be able to see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reiver1 View Post
    I thought GOMZ too....and the Russian that sent it said the same....I wondered as most of the examples I've seen also have the Hammer/sickle above the factory mark.
    The ones without the Soviet Hammer Sickle star symbol (but the markings are on the bridges) are extremely rare samples (made in 1942).

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcke2000 View Post
    The Soviet Hammer Sickle star symbol was removed (or covered by black paint) during refurb. If you remove the black paint, you may be able to see it.
    Nope, the paint is even thruout and old, the off side with the refurb stamp is thicker but the original marking side is 'thin'...cleaned with alcohol and there are no other engravings other than the GOMZ plant symbol.....I wonder, as this is a late '41 by serial number, if they stopped that practice before moving the markings to the bridge?

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    Quote Originally Posted by reiver1 View Post
    Nope, the paint is even thruout and old, the off side with the refurb stamp is thicker but the original marking side is 'thin'...cleaned with alcohol and there are no other engravings other than the GOMZ plant symbol.....I wonder, as this is a late '41 by serial number, if they stopped that practice before moving the markings to the bridge?
    Possible. I did find a non-refurb sample in my collection, a later 1941 GOMZ with S/N 4106XXXX without the Soviet Hammer Sickle Star symbol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcke2000 View Post
    Possible. I did find a non-refurb sample in my collection, a later 1941 GOMZ with S/N 4106XXXX without the Soviet Hammer Sickle Star symbol.
    Ah, very good....as this one is a N 4107...… this is my only set...do you have any idea what the numbers were produced at that factory for '41 for a time frame of production? Thanks for the info too.

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    another question on the reticle itself...what are the individual gradients measured in?Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by reiver1 View Post
    Ah, very good....as this one is a N 4107...… this is my only set...do you have any idea what the numbers were produced at that factory for '41 for a time frame of production? Thanks for the info too.
    I don't know. There are some discussions on Russian forums, but seems like no one actually knows the production numbers or is able to locate the official documentation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reiver1 View Post
    another question on the reticle itself...what are the individual gradients measured in?Click image for larger version. 

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    The reticle uses the mil scale. The small ticks indicate 5 mils, the large ticks are 10 mils. The formula is: (size of object in meters * 1000) / size of object in mils = distance in meters

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    Thanks on both accounts.....I assumed Mils but had no idea as to the breakdown...you never know. Now I can adjust fire.

    As to the production month I would hazard a guess that the GOMZ units marked without the Hammer/Sickle were done towards the end of the '41 production year before they moved the markings to the bridge. The later/higher serial numbers would indicate that too I suppose.

    Thanks again....this is a subject I know hardly anything about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcke2000 View Post
    The reticle uses the mil scale. The small ticks indicate 5 mils, the large ticks are 10 mils. The formula is: (size of object in meters * 1000) / size of object in mils = distance in meters
    I've never used Bino's to figure the distance just to adjust fire from Arty....and that is simple 1 mil is 1 meter at 1000 m, 2m at 2K, etc.......always had a map to indicate a known distance.

    It'll be fun trying the distance estimation...…. rather have a map tho

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    It is believed that such marking without hammer and sickle was used after GOMZ was evacuated to Kazan at autumn 1941. In fact, it was already KOMZ, but they still used old GOMZ logo up to the early 1942. Many of those binoculars had have casted plates, made from silumin instead of brass.
    Here are mine very early 1942 binoculars, made by KOMZ but with GOMZ logo. Factory did not used rubber/plastic finish at early 1942 binoculars. Plates are made from silumin
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    Later model with silumin oculars and steel plates
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    Last edited by Ratnik; 07-11-2019 at 01:04 PM.

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    Thanks Ratnik....great info....the plates on mine, as you can see, are still brass.

    So GOMZ was part of this process....

    "
    Even so, some 1300 factories were packed up from the northern industrial sectors and carried east by train into the Urals, Central Asia or Siberia. Moreover, these numbers only reflect large facilities. When all factories, even small ones no larger than simple workshops, are considered, as many as 50,000 may have been transported east. As monumental as this effort proved, it still fell short of all available industry. In the Donets Basin, for example, 64 steel facilities came under threat in 1941, but the Soviets only managed to salvage 17 of them. It was not only facilities that were lost; huge stockpiles of raw materials or refined materials were also abandoned, and areas that produced strategic resources were taken by the enemy. The year 1942 saw the production of steel and coal at rates roughly half of what they had been in 1941."

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    I thought this might be a good thread to post these and maybe find out a bit about them.

    I picked these up earlier this year at a show, mainly to go with my collection of military 6x30's, since I rarely see Russian WWII binoculars.

    If my research is correct these are IZOS binocs, made in Izym...1940...

    To me, they look un-refurbed, and have an original ocular protector and strap...

    Was this a good snag?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pzjgr View Post
    I thought this might be a good thread to post these and maybe find out a bit about them.

    I picked these up earlier this year at a show, mainly to go with my collection of military 6x30's, since I rarely see Russian WWII binoculars.

    If my research is correct these are IZOS binocs, made in Izym...1940...

    To me, they look un-refurbed, and have an original ocular protector and strap...

    Was this a good snag?
    Depends upon how much you paid for it and if it optically and mechanically function well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcke2000 View Post
    Depends upon how much you paid for it and if it optically and mechanically function well.
    Did $150 trade value, optics are nice and clear, mechanical function is solid, the big draw for me is they looked like original issue shape, not re-furbed…

    I have a good collection of military binocs, and have American, British, and German 6x30's so I thought it would be nice to add Russian, especially since like I said, I don't come across much WWII Soviet optics...now to get a Japanese set...

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    Sounds like a good deal for a really nice set of Bino's...in great shape too...how about some pics of the case...front and inside. I like the fact that they have been well used. A set that was in 'as new' without a refurb would indicate it sat on a shelf or was some rear echelon officers poser piece.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pzjgr View Post
    Did $150 trade value, optics are nice and clear, mechanical function is solid, the big draw for me is they looked like original issue shape, not re-furbed…

    I have a good collection of military binocs, and have American, British, and German 6x30's so I thought it would be nice to add Russian, especially since like I said, I don't come across much WWII Soviet optics...now to get a Japanese set...
    You did fine. Condition is a bit rough, but it does look like original.

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    My personal favorite IZOS are those made in late 1942 and 1943.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcke2000 View Post
    My personal favorite IZOS are those made in late 1942 and 1943.
    I also like binoculars with wartime simplifications. Here is another set that I own - 1943 IZOS with steel plates and objective covers. It's very uncommon to see them with steel parts, even in 1942-1943 IZOS mainly used brass.
    1943 IZOS have unique to this period dark red eyecups and same color axis discs (painted)
    Eyepiece cover was made from captured german leather item

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    Great discussion Info. on these Russian Binocs..I have 2 pair ea. w/ cases that have been refurbished and the Hammer Sickle are faintly visible..will get them out & take some pics.

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    Dammit! Don't get me started on another collectable journey..... these Bino's are nifty and interesting.

    Ratnik....what do you consider the most collectable of the Soviet wartime Bino's and why?

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    There were 6 factories that produced 6x30 binoculars in 1941-1945/
    First was factory #69 NKV, it ended 6x30 production in 1941. Not very common, but not very rare.
    1941 binos of this factory are not dated, just serial number started from 05*.
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    Second was GOMZ factory, at Autumn 1941 it was evacuated to Kazan, and became part of the KOMZ factory. 1941 GOMZ binoculars are quite common. Model like you purchased can be called uncommon, in case it was without refurb marking it was very valuable. Yet I did not managed to find such model in nice condition
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    Third was KOMZ factory. It was the most mass produced maker, but it's binoculars in original condition (factory used many ersatz materials, like catsed silumin oculars, steel plates) are quite scarce.
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    Fourth was IZOS, in it 1943 became part of ZOMZ. IZOS binoculars are realatively common, but of course in nice factory original condition they are scarce.
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    Fifth factory was ZOMZ. Production was started in 1944. There are models with production year, and without. Very common, but in case binoculars still have casted silumin oculars - scarce.
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    Sixth factory is KMZ. Production was started in 1945. 1945 bicnoculars are common, but 1944 binoculars are very rare. yet did not came accross nice set
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    The holy grail for binocualars collectors between 6x30 models are early 1942 KOMZ binoculars without rubber finish, especially with GOMZ logo. Two 1942 binoculars that I showed few posts above actually are VERY, VERY rare. Model with GOMZ logo at the plate is the only known surviced example with such type of marking. GFew other known are marked at the bridges. I bought them in Germany, so they were captured by German soldier. Second binoculars are also scarce - it's transitional model betwenn full casted oculars and prewar brass two piece oculars. Oculars are two piece, part with knurling is casted, bottwo ring is brass. Only two or three others are know, all are damaged. Do for sure I can call them one of the most rare 6x30 variations.
    Wartime 8x30 and 7x50 models are very rare
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratnik View Post
    There were 6 factories that produced 6x30 binoculars in 1941-1945/
    First was factory #69 NKV, it ended 6x30 production in 1941. Not very common, but not very rare.
    1941 binos of this factory are not dated, just serial number started from 05*.
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    Second was GOMZ factory, at Autumn 1941 it was evacuated to Kazan, and became part of the KOMZ factory. 1941 GOMZ binoculars are quite common. Model like you purchased can be called uncommon, in case it was without refurb marking it was very valuable. Yet I did not managed to find such model in nice condition
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    Third was KOMZ factory. It was the most mass produced maker, but it's binoculars in original condition (factory used many ersatz materials, like catsed silumin oculars, steel plates) are quite scarce.
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    Fourth was IZOS, in it 1943 became part of ZOMZ. IZOS binoculars are realatively common, but of course in nice factory original condition they are scarce.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Fifth factory was ZOMZ. Production was started in 1944. There are models with production year, and without. Very common, but in case binoculars still have casted silumin oculars - scarce.
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    Sixth factory is KMZ. Production was started in 1945. 1945 bicnoculars are common, but 1944 binoculars are very rare. yet did not came accross nice set
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    The holy grail for binocualars collectors between 6x30 models are early 1942 KOMZ binoculars without rubber finish, especially with GOMZ logo. Two 1942 binoculars that I showed few posts above actually are VERY, VERY rare. Model with GOMZ logo at the plate is the only known surviced example with such type of marking. GFew other known are marked at the bridges. I bought them in Germany, so they were captured by German soldier. Second binoculars are also scarce - it's transitional model betwenn full casted oculars and prewar brass two piece oculars. Oculars are two piece, part with knurling is casted, bottwo ring is brass. Only two or three others are know, all are damaged. Do for sure I can call them one of the most rare 6x30 variations.
    Wartime 8x30 and 7x50 models are very rare
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Sir, nice summary! Thank you!

    I would also like to add that another war time rare (at least uncommon) type is IZOS/ZOMZ 4x45 binoculars. It took me some time to finally get one.

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    Great run down Ratnik..... thanks for that post...now I know what to look for.

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    Yes, very informative post! Thank you.

    PA
    Interested in buying a factory original Izhevsk PU sniper with original wartime matched scope. Long shot but a guy can dream!

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    Default Soviet WW2 Bino / Optics marking qustion

    Ratnik how common is this one? Looks like 1940 GOMZ. No refurb marks that I can see.






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    If it's Made in Russia and original, I'll buy it)

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    Nice Pavlin....the case specifically...in nice 'used' shape too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    Ratnik how common is this one? Looks like 1940 GOMZ. No refurb marks that I can see.
    Nice original condition bicoulars. Not a rare year/maker (however, 1941 GOMZ is much more common), but as I said, any pre 1945 binoculars in good factory original condition are quite scarse nowadays

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    New find. Very early 1942 IZOS binoculars

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    Ratnik, as usual you’ve provided excellent information for collectors. Thanks for providing this information.
    Richard

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    One of Soviet 7x50 binoculars in my collection.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC06638.JPG  

    Last edited by pcke2000; 09-02-2019 at 07:48 PM.

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    So those are the regular 6 x 30's with added optics screwed in place or are the eye pieces different too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by reiver1 View Post
    So those are the regular 6 x 30's with added optics screwed in place or are the eye pieces different too?
    they are completely different from 6x30, no interchangable parts, and they are much bigger

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    Ratnik how common are these?




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    If it's Made in Russia and original, I'll buy it)

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    I would say everything pre 1932 in factory original condition is very rare, if binoculars have undamaged rubber finish at the tubes, you are very lucky

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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    Ratnik how common are these?




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Please post more pictures of this interesting GOMZ, thank you!

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    Default Soviet WW2 Bino / Optics marking qustion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratnik View Post
    I would say everything pre 1932 in factory original condition is very rare, if binoculars have undamaged rubber finish at the tubes, you are very lucky
    Alex that’s where my luck runs out. The rubber is cracked along one of the tubes. I’m thinking of carefully gluing it back.






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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    Alex that’s where my luck runs out. The rubber is cracked along one of the tubes. I’m thinking of carefully gluing it back.
    Condition is still very nice, one of the best I saw for this year. Finish can be repired, nothing awful

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    Here's a nice and pretty informative guide I found that describes the variations and rarity grades of binoculars produced until 1945.
    Of course in Russian but I can translate later.
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