Antique gun with defect in chamber, piece of brass stuck, how to approach?
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Antique gun with defect in chamber, piece of brass stuck, how to approach?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    auburn CA
    Posts
    541

    Default Antique gun with defect in chamber, piece of brass stuck, how to approach?

    19th century dated .45 back powder cartridge gun (43 Beaumont caliber)

    Upon re- forming / fire forming 50-90 sharps to 43 Beaumont with 12 grain red dot, cream of wheat filler and a wax plug i noticed the ring in the neck of the brass. Bore scoped it and sure enough, there's a groove cut in the neck part of the chamber.

    Turns out this likely happened because of this ;

    "Galling in the chamber from chips packing in the flutes can tear the metal surface in the bore and create grooves in the
    chamber."

    How this gun passed inspection back in the day is a mystery to me, especially since on every screw on the gun there's at least 3 inspector proof marks.

    I loaded a live round, went to the range and was done after firing that 1 round; the brass neck tore off right where that galling groove sits, leaving the neck in the chamber. Sucker is stuck in there good since the brass flowed into that groove.

    The plan is to take that now piece of shortened brass, load a shorter bullet with a mild load, fire it and and see if that broken neck wants to blow out that way, since it's otherwise not moving. I don't expect much in the way of accuracy with this circus going on, but only one way to find out.

    If i can get that piece of broken neck out then i will have to trim the brass to below the groove, and perhaps use a longer bullet. Even without part of the neck not here in the brass i still have enough neck to seat a shorter bullet firmly. If it stays there for a while then i'm stuck with short bullets and a big jump to the lands.

    Will check the bore each shot to see what's happening from shot to shot, so there's nothing stuck halfway up the bore before the follow up shot.

    Unless there's another way to get this brass piece out ?


    See pics, any input as to how to approach this situation is appreciated.

    brass formed with ring in neck;


    The groove in the chamber;


    Fired with part of neck torn off;


    Piece of neck stuck in groove / bore;

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Outer Mongolia
    Posts
    10,900

    Default

    Take it to a gunsmith!

    With the proper tools he can remove the piece of brass. Then either designate as a "wall hanger" or have the chamber and free-bore extended to clean up the grooves. The only problem with a chamber/free-bore clean-up is that it will hard on brass when it comes to reloading.

    Best of luck with your Beaumont.

    Warmest regards,

    JPS

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,311

    Default

    You can also resleeve the chamber ....Ive done more than a few old guns to restore corroded and damaged chambers ......big advantage is to then chamber it for a more suitable /available case.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    GunBoards.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    599

    Default

    Is there a reamer available to use a neck reamer in the chamber? Either a full chambering reamer or perhaps a separate reamer just to (re)cut the neck portion of the chamber.
    The idea being to clean up the brass ring stuck in the chamber neck groove, cutting it down even with the existing chamber neck surface.
    The remaining brass 'fills in' the groove and allows standard length brass to be used.

    I'd imagine the brass would stay put as it is constantly pushed into the groove by each round fired. Even so I would always check the bore after firing.

    Just an idea.

    The chamber sleeving idea would be the next possibility.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    auburn CA
    Posts
    541

    Default

    Thanks all for the input.


    I do like this idea, input from a smith;


    The correct way to remove the brass is to machine it out.
    Thin it out until it's just foil and it comes right out with a scribe.

    I've also thought about using the reamer method, but i doubt there's still a reamer for a 43 Beaumont around

    Though of rechambering, or resleeving, but i just don't see which alternative cartridge would be suitable with the original 43 Beaumont rim being as large as it is and the short cartride length of this chambering (for instance the 50-90 sharps rim works but is actually a bit underized.)


    I'll also ask a guy at the range who has a lathe and does gunsmithing work to see if this would be a job for him.


    Pondering; I know that in an actual obstructed barrel situation i would create all kinds of fireworks if i were to fire another round through it, but what's happened here is that the expanded neck sits in the chamber, it's inner diameter is larger then the lead projectile, so my theory is that with using a shorter cartridge and shorter bullet plus lower charge the bullet itself will pass through the neck unobstructed and perhaps dislodge that neck after the bullet passed through it...(and check after each round to see if the neck loosened by the shock of the round being fired) Or am i overlooking something here?


    But as mentioned, shooting it with a shorter case and bullet plus charge is a theory, i'm not going to do anything rash. I decided to put it on the wall for now, get input from smiths / machinists, and go from there

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2,311

    Default

    In the distant past ,when cadet guns were serviced by the trade ,a common defect noted was a ring bulge caused by a detached neck part of a blank round ,a subsequently fired live round stamping the brass into the steel .After a few more more live rounds fired ,the brass disappears ,leaving only the telltale ring in the bore ,and a slight bulge in the OD.....Not uncommon in military guns ,and a possible reason blanks were changed to plastic cases............and yes ,go ahead and use a shorter case ,and probably the brass piece will disappear.Certainly never cause any difficulty in a blackpowder gun.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    auburn CA
    Posts
    541

    Default

    This worked;



    Now loading a few short cases to see if i can still get this gun to shoot

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    586

    Default

    shooting antique firearms and you want to know what the problem is

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    auburn CA
    Posts
    541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jack View Post
    shooting antique firearms and you want to know what the problem is
    Know the problem. Was looking for a solution. Found it. Thanks for your helpful input.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    2,243

    Default

    If you have a circumferential ring in the chamber, is there any chance of a crack into/thru the barrel at that point? Might be a disaster waiting to happen? Mebbe magnaflux the barrel?
    Last edited by FGD135; 05-11-2020 at 10:43 AM.
    "No Anchovies? You got the wrong man, I spell my name Danger!" (Click)

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    auburn CA
    Posts
    541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FGD135 View Post
    If you have a circumferential ring in the chamber, is there any chance of a crack into/thru the barrel at that point? Might be a disaster waiting to happen? Mebbe magnaflux the barrel?
    I see what you mean, but it's hardly been shot since made, and there's still a lot of meat around the neck area, plus i'm shooting light loads, so i'm not too worried. I think i might shoot a couple dozen rounds through it and then hang it on the wall. I have modern stuff that i can shoot extensively, just want to get a feel on how this old gun shoots

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    1,138

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vincentvangerven View Post
    Know the problem. Was looking for a solution. Found it. Thanks for your helpful input.

    Indeed!

  14. #13
    Clyde's Avatar
    Clyde is online now Gold Bullet Member and Noted Curmudgeon
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    93,023

    Default

    Glad you got that brass ring out. I must say, the ring looks more like it got machined in place for reasons making no sense to me at all. The cylinder dimensions of the gun are, of course, unknown to me, but I SUSPECT it is adequate to allow reaming and sleeving and re-chamber. If so, I'd consider it. Beyond that, short case and blaze away strikes me as workable.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Laurel, Maryland
    Posts
    185

    Default

    I love happy endings!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •