SAMCO scopeless PU
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Thread: SAMCO scopeless PU

  1. #1
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    Default SAMCO scopeless PU

    Hello all,

    I recently won a SAMCO scopeless PU off a Gun Broker auction. It's a total mismatch, but seems to have been unmolested since import. It is filled with storage grease and still had the manila ID tag attached to the trigger guard. I haven't totally disassembled it yet for cleaning, but the only non-Izhevsk part I see at this point is the front site. I'm no expert on evaluating bore condition, but the rifling looks pretty good and the bore arrears slightly frosted. I have thoroughly cleaned the bore for the photo. The bore brush feed evenly the entire length of the bore. Bore condition means more to me than the parts mismatch, as I plan on re-scoping it to shoot. I'll probably do some shimming and barrel floating and trigger work as well. I already had a nice unnumbered Izhevsk scope mount and a non-refurb 1944 Progress scope that appears to be in unissued condition. I also have a couple of Tula made bases that I could make fit, however, as long as I'm going to restore this rifle back to sniper configuration, I want to go the extra mile and do it as period correct as possible. The existing mismatches don't even bother me, as they are part of the authentic history of the rifle. I plan to use the mount that I have as it is correct as for as I can tell. My research leads me to believe that according to the original scope serial number on the barrel shank, the original scope had to have been a 1944 Factory 297 Yoshkar-Ola. I was lucky to have easily located a 1944 Factory 297 scope that had no refurb marking on Ebay. It's now making it's way to me from Russia. I also have an Izhevsk base order in to Raspootyn. If I'm incorrect about any of this, please let me know. Also, interested in hearing any advice from those who have restored the SAMCO's and also more about the details of those rifle's Yugoslavian journey.

    Regards,
    Richard
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  2. #2
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    Oh you lucky dog!

    Since the Yugoslavians have taken that beautiful rifle apart, and then totally misassembled it, you'll need one of these; https://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...its-24-Shipped!!!

    I'd use this for sighting it in. https://www.sgammo.com/product/wolf-...ormance-ammuni

    And this for small groups, https://www.sgammo.com/product/prvi-...osive-prvi-par

    My son's Classic Arms PU, and my SAMCO love the stuff!

    Try some "J-B bore Bright, on the bore, after you get the copper out.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100_1221[1].JPG  

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  3. #3
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    Thanks for your advice, Montana.

    Are you saying that I'm lucky because these SAMCO scopeless don't come up for sale much any more? I knew about them, but had not actively been looking for one. This one just crossed my path and I decided to bid on it. Only one other bidder.

    In your opinion, is the PPU Rifleline ammo that you linked to as accurate as their Match grade ammo?

    I have the shim kit waiting.

    I will definitely try the J-B. I've never used it before.

    I just noticed that only 12 of the 20 pics that I uploaded actually appeared in the thread. The bore pic is one off the missing ones. Maybe the file size was too big. I'll try to reload the rest.
    Last edited by rico; 05-20-2020 at 05:25 PM. Reason: add pics

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  5. #4
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    Oh man, that looks like a real good, nice tight muzzle.

    If that rifle isn't a MOA shooting rifle, you're doing something wrong!

    Now rico, I may be a bit of an odd ball here.

    Back in the day, when I got mine, there was ONLY two choices for a PU.

    (1) The first option, that many people here went for was spending $1,000 for an RGuns Russian refurbed PU.

    (2) The SAMCO ex-Yugoslavian Army scopeless PUs. An excellent all original matching, or nearly all original matching scopeless PU from SAMCO went for $350.

    That's what I paid for my "Safe Queen" SAMCO, by far and away, the most accurate rifle here.

    This was back when C.A.I Ukrainian Mosin imports were going for around $100.

    So I did, what you are going to do.

    Got a period correct base that PERFECTLY matches my rifle from Raspy.

    Also I snagged a period correct mount and Progress scope from Classic Arms, came with a scope cover, and I think that was around $350, at that time.

    Now, I have a restored PU, that except for the bolt, base, base screws, mount, and scope, has ALL the original parts it had in WWII.

    It has NEVER been through the horrendous Russian refurb process.

    It is purely a matter of beauty in the eye of the beholder, but I greatly prefer my restored SAMCO PU, to my son's all original matching (except the mount and scope) Classic Arms PU.

    The SAMCO is more accurate too.

    I think you have a great rifle there. It may not "float the boat" of a lot of collectors here. But that is their problem.

    I am sure, once you get this rifle together, and sighted in, you will have an amazingly accurate rifle, that will be a real pleasure to shoot.

    These are just not that common!

    I don't remember the number now, but I think Yugoslavia, received as part of an aid package from the Soviets, in '45-46 around 2,000 PU rifles.

    It's a close as you are going to get, to getting a PU out of a time machine.

    Like I said, You are one lucky dog!
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  6. #5
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    These are fine shooting rifles and usually have a very nice trigger pull. If you get the base to match all the drilled holes and use good screws you should be good to go.

    Extra Match is the best ammo IMO, if you can find some.

  7. #6
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    Notes on my restoration years ago.

    Rebuilding My Yugoslavian Ex-Sniper Mosin Nagant


    I’m guessing a lot of people have looked at the Mosin Nagant “ex-sniper” rifles that have been kicking around recently, and thought, “I’ll bet I could cobble a rifle together.” The idea was particularly attractive to me, because I happened to have a PU scope and mount I picked up years ago.



    So I ordered one of Samco’s “Original Mosin-Nagant M91/30 Bent Bolt with 2 holes/2 pin on receiver for PU Scope and mount.” The rifle I received is a 1944 dated Izhevsk, s/n TK1317, imported from Yugoslavia. I REALIZE NOW THIS WAS NOT AN "EX-SNIPER" AS THE HOLES WERE NOT FILLED OUT, AND THE RIFLE WAS NEVER REMOVED FROM SNIPER SERVICE.



    I’ve pondered why there so many ex-snipers floating around without optics. I don't know whether there was a shortage of optics and the Russkies tried to keep them in-country, or they didn't want to put built-up snipers in the hands of countries with whom the alliance was shaky (like Yugoslavia).


    My particular rifle was rated “Special Select Condition”, which SAMCO defines as “80% of original metal finish. Some dings & dents on wood, Clean Bore: pitting”. The finish is actually much better than 80%. Numbers all match (not forced), except the butt plate. Wood has dings and dents, although still in decent condition with a lot of interesting markings. Those include a circular Soviet CCCP, a “10” in a circle (Bulgarian?), “BP 124” in triangle (which I understand is a Yugoslavian Military Workshop 124 refurbishment mark) and some hard to read characters in small parallelograms (one of them may be “51”). There are none of the ubiquitous Soviet rebuild marks (rectangle with slash).


    The bore was slightly frosted, but the rifling is very strong. Several trips to the range followed by careful cleaning resulted in a bright and shiny bore.


    The first attempt to mount the scope made it clear this was not going to be a quick or simple job. The pins protruding from the receiver did not match up with the pin holes in base plate. I had assumed all of these dimensions would be standard. But Henry Ford's miracle of mass production and interchangeable parts apparently did not completely catch up with the Soviets, at least as far as scope mounts are concerned.


    I realized I should have ordered the rifle with four holes, rather than two holes/two pins. I tried to drive the pins out, but they wouldn’t budge. In looking the situation over carefully, I ascertained that the front pin would line up correctly, so I carefully removed the rear pin with a Dremel tool, grinding the remnants of the pin flush with the receiver, so that the base plate would lay flat on the receiver.


    Assuming I was over the worst of it, I prepared to install the two screws which hold the base in place on the receiver. But I quickly discovered that the distance between the screw holes in the receiver was different than the holes in the scope base plate. Again the miracle of mass production and interchangeability apparently didn’t make it to war-torn Russia.


    Some browsing on the web confirmed that original mounts might have a variation of as much as 2 mm between the screw holes. Mine wasn’t ever going to work on that rifle.


    Fortunately, I discovered that ACCUMOUNT (accumounts.com) makes bases with three different distances between centers on the screws. I measured the spacing on my receiver, and ordered closest one from ACCUMOUNT.


    When it arrived, I held my breath as I slid the new base over the remaining pin, and snuggled it down onto the receiver. Although the distance between centers on the screw holes was now correct, the holes in the base did not line up with holes in the receiver. It was clear that the remaining pin was now a problem. So off she came, as had previously been the case with the rear pin.


    Now it was possible to snug the base up to the receiver. Had to do some modifications to the mounting screws, as the inlets for the set-screws did not line up correctly, but that was accomplished without too much trouble. With the base plate now firmly secured on the receiver, it was apparent that the alignment on what had been the front pin was now very close. So I carefully drilled out the remainder of pin, and gently tapped a new pin through the base mount into the receiver, and it all tightened up nicely. Still one pin short of the original configuration, but everything seemed secure.


    I then mated the scope bracket to the base. There is a great article by Paul Oats about this process. IF YOU WANT A PDF COPY OF THIS, PM ME WITH YOUR EMAIL.


    Each rifle had to have the scope bracket individually machined to the base in order for the rifle to be set at a true zero. This involves shooting a few rounds, removing the bracket, and filing (presumably very small amounts) from the bracket. Unlike most scopes, the PU scope's field of view is fixed, and the adjustment turrets actually move the entire reticle within the field of view. You first center the pattern by filing the bracket, and then move the reticle to the centered pattern by adjusting the turrets. Then the turrets can be indexed (set for zero windage and correct elevation) and subsequent fine adjustments can then be made using the turrets.


    The articles I read suggested the grinding process would amount to removing small amounts of metal. In the case of my mount, it turned out to be a lot of grinding. The pattern started off way to the left in the scope’s field of view (which is where you want it to begin with). I fired a few rounds to warm the barrel up, then three rounds at 100 yards to get a pattern. Then I removed the bracket, filed the bracket to adjust the point of impact, and reassembled it to fire again.


    You want to keep the barrel at a fairly constant temperature or the point of impact wanders around. Which means you can only work on it for a relatively short time at a stretch. If you get the barrel too hot, the patterns aren’t good. You can sit around at the range and let the thing cool off, or you can go do something else. Easier for a busy person to go do something else, so I made numerous trips to the range over many days. Fire, file, fire file. I went slow, because if you grind too much, the pattern will end up to the right of center, and then you’ve got a problem which can only be resolved by shimming. Didn’t want to go there.


    Once the pattern was very nearly centered, I made the fine adjustments with the turrets and indexed them at 100 yards. At this point I was getting consistent MOA groups at 100 yards.


    Then the acid test. I moved the targets out to 200+ yards and prayed that the point of impact wouldn’t shift left or right. If you've done the grinding correctly the scope should be dead center over the barrel, and windage should remain constant at all ranges. If not, the problem shows up right away at 200 yards. Bingo! I was lucky - everything was perfect. First two shot straddled the vertical center line on my target. Last thing I did was cold-blue the places I had filed and ground.


    I have two other Mosin Nagant snipers which are original. One I have never shot (it's an unissued post-WW2 arsenal rebuild). The other one goes to the range quite a bit. My restoration shoots a gnat's ass better than my regular shooter. In one string I had 4 out of 6 shots touching at 100yd.


    Believe me, after having spent at least 20 hours on this job, I have a lot more respect for the guys who were setting these rifles up while the enemy was at the gates. Crude process by modern standards, but nonetheless effective. I'm sure the learning curve improves with experience, but there was still a lot of work to bring each individual rifle up to sniper standard. It’s a far cry from modern weapon systems.


    I realize that I now have a rifle that is not completely “original”, and thus strictly speaking, not very collectable. But it’s my favorite of the three Mosin Nagant snipers I own. Why? The others will always be there – one in pristine condition. They have their own histories. Mine is a bit of a mutt – well in fact they all are – but this one was put together far from its home long after the battles it was originally meant to fight. But this one has given me a deep appreciation of what was going on in midst of a desperate war many decades ago. And there is a lot of me invested in this particular rifle. So when rounds go down range, I know what was involved during Великая Отечественная война - the Great Patriotic War. And even when I’m shooting my original sniper, the work I have done on this restoration helps me feel a tiny connection to the craftsmen who helped keep the Nazi hordes at bay more than half a century ago.

    Comments from Marcus von Weigert regarding my rebuild project


    These Rifles were given to Yugoslavia by the Soviet Union in 1944 as Military Aid, they were brand new from the factory at that time, and were in Sniper Configuration, barring something unusual they never would have served with the Soviets. They did however see action with Yugoslavia during World War 2, possibly some action in Africa at some point before returning home where they fought in the Yugoslavian Civil War in the late 1990's-really when they were imported, it's conceivable that some of theses Rifles were in action as late as LAST YEAR. The reason they don't have the Scopes, Bases, or Mounts is because for some reason the Yugoslavians stored those separately from the Rifles, and sold them separately.


    Mosin Nagant m-91/30 PU snipers were all "one offs" they were not made on an assembly line, the base rifle was, but after they decided to "sniper it", the conversion was done by an armoror, they are all different, you'll find that some of the holes were actually drilled by hand. There is no standard placement, though there usually in the same general area, and they may be crooked. When I did mine all the holes lined up perfectly, but they were lopsided, I had to have a gunsmith re-drill the base to match the holes in the receiver, and as a result there was no room for the locking screws. The pins are locating pins, they were drilled, and installed first, they served to keep the base steady as the mounting holes were drilled.


    9245 10/14/08


    These are not "ex"-snipers, they are genuine, original, snipers that are merely missing their scope setups. "Ex"-snipers are the ones the Soviets plugged the holes in the receivers by cutting off the mounting screws and pins, removed the original sniper bolts and replaced them with standard bolts in most (but not all) cases, and patched the cutout for the base on the left side of the stock or replaced the stock altogether.


    There is absolutely nothing Bulgarian about these rifles - that smaller circled marking on the right side of the butt is Cyrillic writing.


    It seems that most of these were part of a shipment of 60,000 various weapons the Soviets delivered to Yugoslavia in early 1944. A few others are reported to have been supplied by the Soviets after WW2, before relations between Tito and Stalin soured. However, it seems there is an inventory listing of weapons in Yugo military inventory from 1947 that is sometimes mistaken for a contract or delivery from that year, instead of a list of weapons they already had.


    It is quite likely that some of these PU snipers were also originally in German possession and were captured from or surrendered by German forces in Yugoslavia at the end of the way, along with all those Yugo captured 98k Mausers. The Germans used large quantities of captured Mosin snipers because they simply did not have enough Mauser snipers. Elite German units like Gebirgsjaeger and Waffen SS had a lot of these Mosins.


    There are no Soviet refurb markings or post-war pieces on these rifles because they left Soviet possession before the massive post-war Soviet refurb and update programs.


    The bottom photograph on page 184 of my friend Karl-Heinz Wrobel's essential but now unobtainable "Drei Linien, Die Gewehre Mosin-Nagant" (Three Lines, The Mosin-Nagant Rifles) shows the conditions under which these PU snipers were being assembled at Izhevsk in 1944. It is very informative.

    If you look on the left side of the barrel shank just above the wood line, you will see the serial number of the original scope that the rifle was fitted at when it was manufactured at Izhevsk in 1944. You can identify the maker of the original scope by this number, which will start with a Cyrillic A or B (for the series of the scope - A dates from 1942 and early 1943, B from 1943 and 1944) or the numbers 43 or 44, which stand for the year the scope was made, 1943 or 1944.


    The various little markings stamped on the stock are the original arsenal inspection and proof cartouches. You don't often see these on Soviet refurbed rifles, because they were sanded off when the stock was refinished, and a multitude of new markings stamped on.


    BP 124 is Cyrillic for VR 124, the VR stands for Vojna Radonica. This is a fairly scarce and very desirable cartouche, as it adds to the Yugo history and provenance of the rifle.


    It is true that these rifles are "not particularly collectable" - they are extremely collectable. The very best of these rifles are pristine, near mint, and as original as the day they were made, except for the missing scope setups, and the Yugo cleaning rods with brazed on heads many of these have. These are the best and most original WW2 condition and configuration PU sniper rifles most folks will ever see, much less have a chance to own.


    Marcus von Weigert, 11/03/08

  8. #7
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    Thanks for the pics and additional comments, Montana. Can't hope for much better than that clover leaf group! Most would probably say that is not possible from these old rifles. I also have an R-Guns refurb PU which I bought off of Gun Broker a couple of years ago. I just finished shimming and floating the barrel, Also dropped an original Finn 2 stage trigger and sear/spring in it. Fine tuned it by filing and polishing. My first trigger job of any kind, and I have to say, I lucked out and ended up with a very nice 2 stage trigger with a short crisp 5.25 pound second stage break. The good part is that it can easily be reversed by swapping out for the original parts. I haven't had a chance yet to take it to the range. I may end up doing something similar with the SAMCO, and look forward to comparing the performance of the two rifles.

  9. #8
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    Mike, this rifle does have a very consistent 5.5 pound clean break, but with a loooooong creepy pull. I may give it the treatment I gave my R-Guns PU (see my reply to one of Montanas' comments).

    Is Extra Match that you refer to from Hornady?

  10. #9
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    Chcusnr, WOW! Thanks so much for this treasure trove of info. Very helpful to me on a practical as well as historical level. I'll PM you for that Paul Oats article, if you still have it. Aligning the scope mount properly seems pretty intimidating. I'd hate to screw it up.

  11. #10
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    Aligning it is not so difficult. Just go slow. Don't let the barrel heat up. Your bigger issue may well be whether or not the base holes line up with the receiver holes. I describe that problem in my article. At the time I did mine, Accumount had repro bases with various distances between the screw holes. I don't think they have those any more.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rico View Post
    Mike, this rifle does have a very consistent 5.5 pound clean break, but with a loooooong creepy pull. I may give it the treatment I gave my R-Guns PU (see my reply to one of Montanas' comments).

    Is Extra Match that you refer to from Hornady?
    I don't know about your rifle, but my SAMCO's have the some of the best triggers here.

    You might, just want to leave it as it is, and learn to shoot it that way, just for the experience.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rico View Post
    Chcusnr, WOW! Thanks so much for this treasure trove of info. Very helpful to me on a practical as well as historical level. I'll PM you for that Paul Oats article, if you still have it. Aligning the scope mount properly seems pretty intimidating. I'd hate to screw it up.
    Yeah, that was a long read, but worth it!

  14. #13
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    Thanks to all of you who responded with info and suggestions. I think I have everything I need now to complete this project successfully. I'll report back when it all comes together.

  15. #14

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    Interesting post I will be watching it.

    Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
    George Carlin

    I smell a whopper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Explosive

    That's nothing.
    I bought five No4Mk1T's test fired only, all with walnut stocks in their transit chests and with the scope cans with matching scopes. $725 for all five rifles.

  16. #15
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    HoooWEE! Lots of words. Gotta go back and re-read. I missed something!
    Interest like this is fun to see.

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rico View Post
    Mike, this rifle does have a very consistent 5.5 pound clean break, but with a loooooong creepy pull. I may give it the treatment I gave my R-Guns PU (see my reply to one of Montanas' comments).

    Is Extra Match that you refer to from Hornady?
    I am talking about the Soviet Extra Match in yellow boxes of 20. It comes in spam cans. IIRC most is from the sixties and head stamp is 188. Accuracy rating is 6-9 cm 20 shot groups at 300 yds, depending on lot number. I think the Russians are selling a copy of the ammo but I am not sure if they got it right or changed anything.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike radford View Post
    I am talking about the Soviet Extra Match in yellow boxes of 20. It comes in spam cans. IIRC most is from the sixties and head stamp is 188. Accuracy rating is 6-9 cm 20 shot groups at 300 yds, depending on lot number. I think the Russians are selling a copy of the ammo but I am not sure if they got it right or changed anything.

    I'll second that. Extra is the best factory ammo of any caliber that I've ever shot. You'll have to be pretty proficient at reloading (and use high grade components) to even top it thru that route.

    I've heard that the new production Extra is also very good, but it's very expensive.






  19. #18
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    Just to clarify on the Extra Match, is this surplus military or commercial? I've had spam cans marked 188, but I don't recall yellow boxes and I think it was from the 70's or 80's. Also, if commercial, is it corrosive?

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rico View Post
    Just to clarify on the Extra Match, is this surplus military or commercial? I've had spam cans marked 188, but I don't recall yellow boxes and I think it was from the 70's or 80's. Also, if commercial, is it corrosive?

    Just about everything Soviet is Corrosive for ammo. Half the time when it says it's not corrosive, it is corrosive.
    There are several types of Extra or Match Soviet ammo out there to use. It keeps popping up on Gunbroker or auction sites here and there.
    I try to hoard it a little bit when I do find it. Used to be around .50c a round or less. Now more in the $1 per round area. But still worth it...
    You really notice the difference the longer you shoot. Really noticeable even @ 100, 200-300m and more.
    Grey, Blue, Yellow, Orange and Red. Most are 182gr. and come in 240 rds per spam can. Not the 440 rd cans(Silver Tip or regular 147gr). I think the Red is 200ish gr.
    I absolutely love the Blue box Soviet Olympic ammo from 1970ish. It's my go too when match or looong distance shooting.

    Examples of Grey, Blue boxes boxes. Yellow, Czech, Match and the regular silver tip cans.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    PM me Richard if you want a couple of boxes to try out. I'm about to send you your PU base and can add them in...
    Ok fine, after years of people asking, I finally created a website to show/trade and sell "Eastern Front" milsurp. Check out milsurpselect.com and PM me with any questions...

  21. #20
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    Thanks for the clarification, Dmitry. I've made a decision to not use corrosive ammo any longer, especially in this rifle. Using it always made me nervous. I was never sure I was cleaning thoroughly enough, and it was a hassle. The PPU Match is what I have been considering https://www.ppu-usa.com/ppu/match-ammunition/ . It is available for under $1 per round, and the cases are reloadable if I ever decide to get into reloading. Anyone have opinions on this ammo?

  22. #21
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    Silver tipped Russian milsurp is the same as regular 147gr Russian milsurp, they just dropped the silver paint after all the stocks of heavy ball (yellow tip) were used up/shipped out elsewhere.If I remember correct it was early part of 1977 that the silver tip on LPS rounds was omitted although the practice of marking LPS with silver tips went on longer in other Warsaw Pact countries such as Hungary that still produced heavy ball.
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  23. #22
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    The grey boxes are "Target". They are rated at 9-12 cm vs 6-9cm for Extra Match. I have one PU that shoots it better than Extra for unknown reasons. Both are good ammos. Cleaning after corrosive is easy. Use water and dish soap, hot water best, rinse and clean the copper with whatever you like.

  24. #23
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    Good looking rifle; Century Arms also imported some of these as well. I believe most of the Century imported Yugos were mismatched.

    I bought a CAI imported Yugo aid PU years ago as my first PU sniper. This was before the big R-Guns shipment arrived. Someone had already scoped it with a 43 dated PU scope and post war Soviet mount. I still have it today and it will shoot close to 1 MOA with different surplus ammo if I do my part, even with the horrible trigger.

    The group below was shot by me and my son when he was about 14. Three shots from me and three from him at 100yds.

    PA
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails S3001091.JPG  

    Interested in buying a factory original Izhevsk PU sniper with original wartime matched scope. Long shot but a guy can dream!

  25. #24
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    Montana
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    Quote Originally Posted by rico View Post
    Thanks for the clarification, Dmitry. I've made a decision to not use corrosive ammo any longer, especially in this rifle. Using it always made me nervous. I was never sure I was cleaning thoroughly enough, and it was a hassle. The PPU Match is what I have been considering https://www.ppu-usa.com/ppu/match-ammunition/ . It is available for under $1 per round, and the cases are reloadable if I ever decide to get into reloading. Anyone have opinions on this ammo?
    That is very good ammo, your SAMCO should like it a lot!

    Ive been using the this version, and getting results, that suit me.


  26. #25

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    Again I'm watching and reading all this. MY Yugo was drilled after the morning Vodka break other wise it's an all matching unfired rifle..





    I don't think there is any hope for scope alignment. Maybe I should talk to Raspootyn or change to a top mount.

    Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
    George Carlin

    I smell a whopper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Explosive

    That's nothing.
    I bought five No4Mk1T's test fired only, all with walnut stocks in their transit chests and with the scope cans with matching scopes. $725 for all five rifles.

  27. #26
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    Not to worry, MJ. This is very doable. I have attached scope bases to several ex-PU sniper rifles. First of all, I see you are using a reproduction base. Consider using an original Soviet Izhevsk base on this fine rifle, in order to keep it authentic. I ordered an original from Raspootyn. Just my opinion, but, in any case, the process is the same for a reproduction base.

    This procedure is best done with the action out of the stock. The most important dimension is the spacing between the two screw holes. As long as this dimension is close to the spacing of the tapped screw holes in the receiver (within about 0.5mm) you can make it work. The location of the two pin holes is actually not that important when using this method. First, remove any burrs on the mating surfaces of the receiver and the four "feet" on the back side of the base. Any exposed steel can be cold blued at this point, if you want. With a small C-clamp or similar, clamp the base to the receiver, lining up the two screw holes as best you can. Check that the four "feet' of the base are all a tight and even fit to the receiver. This should occur easily if the base is not bent or twisted. If, at this point, the screws can be screwed all the way in, great. If not, mark where metal on the base needs to be removed in order to allow the screws to pass. Remove the base and with a small round file, remove just enough metal from the base holes to do the trick. Re-clamp the base back in the original position. The screws should start to thread in now, but most likely, not all the way home. In this case, remove the screws and chuck them in a drill, taking care not to distort the threads. With the drill powered up, dress the side of the screw head using a file, in order to slightly reduce the diameter of the head. Take a little off at a time and test fit until they will screw all the way home. Again, you may chose to cold blue bare steel. Remove the clamp, oil the screw threads, and using a proper fitting driver bit, torque the screws "goodntite". I don't know if the Soviets had torque specs for these rifles, but some on the boards may know. With the screws torqued how you want them, you can now address the pins. The pin holes in the base and the receiver are never going to align perfectly, and in fact, are going to look pretty far off. Don't get discouraged. As long as you can see some light through the holes, there is light at the end of the tunnel. With a caliper. measure the diameter of the pins you have. Find a drill bit about 0.002" smaller in diameter than the pin. I am relying on memory for that figure, so I would suggest doing a test on a piece of scrap steel first. What you're looking for is an interference fit that is Goldylocks tight. You don't want it so tight that you bend anything trying to drive the pins in. When you test something that feels right, go ahead and drill all the way through the base pin holes and all the way through the receiver wall. Use a hand held electric drill for this, rather than a drill press. What you want, is to let the drill bit be guided by the misalignment of the hole of the base in relation to the hole in the receiver. hold the drill somewhat loosely while drilling, and don't try to force a perpendicular hole. With the misalignment of the holes, you are going to end up with a "slanted" hole. That's okay, it will be unnoticeable in the end. I suggest drilling and installing one pin before drilling for the other. Be sure not to drive the pins too deep to where they interfere with the bolt travel. It's not easy to drive them back from the interior of the bolt channel. If you mess up or find that the pins you have are just too small in diameter to work well in the existing holes, all is not lost. Let me say here that I have no idea if there was a standard pin diameter back in the day. Maybe the Soviets had several diameter pins in case they messed up. Again, others on the boards may know. Even if you have no pins or the ones you do have are not the right size, you can easily make your own out of a drill bit. Choose a bit the diameter of the existing hole in the base or a tad larger. Cut pins the length you want from the dumb end of the bit. Chuck them in a drill and dress a champher on one end with a file. Cold blue if you want. The next step is cutting the relief cuts for the stop screws. This can be done with an end mill cutter slightly greater in diameter than the head of the stop screw. If you have a milling machine, great, but it can be done using a drill press with cross vice at slow speed. Cut just deep enough so that the head of the stop screw is just flush with the base screw head. I like to use blue Loctite or Vibra-tite VC-3 on the stop screw threads. In case you are using used base screws that already have been cut for stop screws, here is a link on how to deal with that https://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...dexing-Cutouts I have also used thin washers as shims under the base screw heads to accomplish this. You can file or sand the washers until you get the right thickness to make the indexing work. You can also ignore the original cut on a base screw and cut a new one where you need it. It seems I've seen this on some re-arsenaled PU's.

    I hope this is helpful. Feel free to PM me if you have questions.
    ~rico

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJ View Post
    Again I'm watching and reading all this. MY Yugo was drilled after the morning Vodka break other wise it's an all matching unfired rifle..





    I don't think there is any hope for scope alignment. Maybe I should talk to Raspootyn or change to a top mount.

    That PU above, with the misaligned holes?

    You can get an undrilled base from Accumounts. Just clamp it where it needs to go, and do the screw holes from inside.

    Or use a sharpie to mark the holes on the base.

  29. #28

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    I have a SAMCO that was one of the early ones they were selling - well before my time collecting. The original SAMCO receipt shows 7/27/04 at a cost of $289.95 and calls it a scoreless sniper with the serial number, notating matching numbers. Interesting thing is it still has the base attached - I was told that it original to the gun. To me the gun appears to be in unissued condition. It was purchased from the original owner that never cleaned or shot it.

  30. #29
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    Jan 2015
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    You lucked out on that one. Having the base already installed makes restoring it much easier!

  31. #30
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    MJ,

    Scope it up; maybe the barrel has a small bend in it and it will all line up!



    Rico,

    Let us know how she shoots!

    PA
    Interested in buying a factory original Izhevsk PU sniper with original wartime matched scope. Long shot but a guy can dream!

  32. #31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chcusnr View Post
    You lucked out on that one. Having the base already installed makes restoring it much easier!
    In the original stock with the original bent bolt too... Only thing it needed was a scope and mount. Crazy thing is the original owner happened to find a scope that was only one digit off from the original scope number.
    Last edited by cyberjad; 05-25-2020 at 11:03 PM.

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by PAshutr3 View Post
    MJ,

    Scope it up; maybe the barrel has a small bend in it and it will all line up!



    Rico,

    Let us know how she shoots!

    PA
    I did but shooting it was pointless. I pulled the bolt and bore sighted on a paper plate at two hundred yards and hat aligned with the iron sights and the scope was canted over the bore so it looked about 20+ feet to the right.
    Last edited by MJ; 05-25-2020 at 06:33 PM.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
    George Carlin

    I smell a whopper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Explosive

    That's nothing.
    I bought five No4Mk1T's test fired only, all with walnut stocks in their transit chests and with the scope cans with matching scopes. $725 for all five rifles.

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