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Thread: Well, the lunatics have taken over the asylum. Monument Avenue to be destroyed

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    Actually (if descriptions of the time are to be trusted - Joshua Chamberlain's for example), the only time a white flag seems to have been in evidence was when it was used (as was the custom of the time) as a parley flag. Banners/flags do not seem to have been displayed following terms having been reached and the surrender terms signed. Flags were surrendered along with arms as part of the ceremonies surrounding the disbanding of the Confederate forces.

    The Customary Laws of War, BTW, required the victors to feed surrendered forces.

    To my knowledge very few folks who surrendered and signed paroles thereafter resumed hostilities. Presume some did, especially after getting back home (Bob Lee, no relation to Robert Edward, might be claimed to have broken his following return to North Texas; full particulars of his actions post-return are found in Sonnichsen's book on Texas feuds, in chapter called "The Hunting of Bob Lee". I tend to think his persecution by the Peacock group and the Freedman's Bureau and other occupation authorities probably justified that in that case). And the surrender terms as I recall them included OFFICERS being allowed to retain side arms (common at the time, and based on most officers having carried personally owned arms) and each group allowed to have a few long arms (I want it to be one for each five or ten soldiers) for foraging during return home. Military equipment other than mounts (supplied personally by officers and cavalry troopers in Confederate service) was surrendered. Surrendered flags were carried off by Yankees and held for a long time as trophies, though many were subsequently returned and often displayed in places like Battle Abbey in Richmond (wonder how much longer that repository will survive).

    Obviously an opinion, but I suspect that Jim Crow and other laws and customs now found objectionable came from the repressions of Radical Reconstruction and corruption and oppression of functionaries in such operations as the Freedman's Bureau and rapacious carpetbaggers and scalawags - and newly enfranchised blacks who ran wild looting the public purse in elected office post-war.

    Clyde, now you and I agree on many things including the trap of trying to apply logic and fact to this topic.

    There is a cure......Just remember “they were bad, they were very bad, they were sooper dooper bad, nothing they thought felt or did was ever good because they were bad. Bad bad bad, so very bad.” Say this 10,000 times, interspersed with a few dousings of cold water, play it on your radio while you try and sleep, put it to music, forget reality, make up stories to fit the “bad” narrative, ignore the fact that Union officers praised their courage and that they were given parole that most kept. Ignore all you know to be true because “they were bad, they were very bad, they were sooper dooper bad, nothing they thought felt or did was ever good because they were bad. Bad bad bad, so very bad.”

    This course of treatment does work, you too can become such an ignoramus that you do this because you do not know your history.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...derate-leader/
    Last edited by Rooinek; 07-04-2020 at 02:56 PM.
    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rooinek View Post
    Your complete and total ignorance of the Civil War is constantly on display. Yes there were some that went back on their parole but relatively few, most went back to rebuilding their lives.Then there were those like this whose actions demonstrate, once again, that your historical knowledge is woefully inadequate.

    https://www.wearethemighty.com/histo...1#rebelltitem1
    your too few are my too many
    Three People to never believe

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    A Politician who tells you how to Pray

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    And Smiling Bob

    Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason toward my country.”
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  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    Actually (if descriptions of the time are to be trusted - Joshua Chamberlain's for example), the only time a white flag seems to have been in evidence was when it was used (as was the custom of the time) as a parley flag. Banners/flags do not seem to have been displayed following terms having been reached and the surrender terms signed. Flags were surrendered along with arms as part of the ceremonies surrounding the disbanding of the Confederate forces.

    The Customary Laws of War, BTW, required the victors to feed surrendered forces.

    To my knowledge very few folks who surrendered and signed paroles thereafter resumed hostilities. Presume some did, especially after getting back home (Bob Lee, no relation to Robert Edward, might be claimed to have broken his following return to North Texas; full particulars of his actions post-return are found in Sonnichsen's book on Texas feuds, in chapter called "The Hunting of Bob Lee". I tend to think his persecution by the Peacock group and the Freedman's Bureau and other occupation authorities probably justified that in that case). And the surrender terms as I recall them included OFFICERS being allowed to retain side arms (common at the time, and based on most officers having carried personally owned arms) and each group allowed to have a few long arms (I want it to be one for each five or ten soldiers) for foraging during return home. Military equipment other than mounts (supplied personally by officers and cavalry troopers in Confederate service) was surrendered. Surrendered flags were carried off by Yankees and held for a long time as trophies, though many were subsequently returned and often displayed in places like Battle Abbey in Richmond (wonder how much longer that repository will survive).

    Obviously an opinion, but I suspect that Jim Crow and other laws and customs now found objectionable came from the repressions of Radical Reconstruction and corruption and oppression of functionaries in such operations as the Freedman's Bureau and rapacious carpetbaggers and scalawags - and newly enfranchised blacks who ran wild looting the public purse in elected office post-war.
    there is always a scape goat , it's ever the offenders fault, just more evidence of lack of honor
    Three People to never believe

    A Religious Leader who tells you how to Vote

    A Politician who tells you how to Pray

    And

    A Draft Dodger who tells you how to be a Patriot

    And Smiling Bob

    Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason toward my country.”
    — PATRICK HENRY

    https://orders.stansberryresearch.co...T137955&page=1

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    your too few are my too many
    Ahh, so I am certain that you can give names of those who put on the Confederate uniform after parole. You can do that right? You can also show how the numbers were significant, correct?
    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    there is always a scape goat , it's ever the offenders fault, just more evidence of lack of honor
    ?????????????
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    ?????????????
    I know. Completely bereft of any logic or any sequence thereof.
    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est

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    list here of massacres and race riots https://www.bing.com/search?q=recons...89450B3ADE27E3

    you can look up the Enforcement acts yourself ..maybe the activities of the Klan

    and I recommend you at least read the review of this book if not the whole book itself

    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/...oryId=89051115
    Three People to never believe

    A Religious Leader who tells you how to Vote

    A Politician who tells you how to Pray

    And

    A Draft Dodger who tells you how to be a Patriot

    And Smiling Bob

    Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason toward my country.”
    — PATRICK HENRY

    https://orders.stansberryresearch.co...T137955&page=1

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    list here of massacres and race riots [url]

    you can look up the Enforcement acts yourself ..maybe the activities of the Klan

    and I recommend you at least read the review of this book if not the whole book itself

    ]
    Horrendous and those guilty should have been hung. No questions there, criminal activity should be punished.

    Nevertheless getting you to answer a question is like trying to nail jelly to a wall. You rarely actually answer a question and when you do you tend to be wrong.

    I asked for names of men who violated parole and put back on the uniform (ie took up arms against the US military after parole) you, ...well obfuscation. I asked you to show significant numbers, you, ......well obfuscation.

    How about actually answering? Novel idea but that is the way a debate or discussion normally goes, unless one’s case is so weak that the only refuge is ......you have it.......obfuscation!
    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est

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    Kurt Schlichter:

    ‘…If you look at everything that is going on, the one common denominator is that every action the woke insurgents take is designed to strip you of your ability to defend your interests, or property, or rights, or life. The idea is to leave you utterly vulnerable, totally exposed, at which point they can do with you as they see fit.

    ‘…And then there's reason. That's a defense too. You can use reason, make arguments, present evidence, and convince people. (But) not if making sense is beside the point.

    'You cannot reason with these people. Forget trying to convince them. You are not going to talk them out of their quest for power over you by deploying bourgeois conceits like "facts" and "evidence." Yet so many of us see what's happening and still take to Twitter or (increasingly) Parler to point out the sheer ridiculousness of the enemy's latest antics. But these actions are not ridiculous. They are tactically genius. Instead of confronting an impenetrable defense, they just scuttle around it and attack into our rear.

    ‘…So how do we beat them?

    ‘Step one is to understand the nature of the fight. It's not one of right and wrong, though that's how they like to disguise it. It is one of power. Give them nothing. Concede nothing. Stop trying to be reasonable with people who think a reasonable compromise is just impoverishing and disenfranchising you instead of stashing you in a gulag or worse.

    ‘Are you still trying to prove to them you aren't "racist?" Why? You aren't, so the hell with them. You owe them no assurances or excuses. They'll just claim your denial is more proof…’

    https://townhall.com/columnists/kurt...sense-n2571665


    A pink shirt and a black rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest2 View Post
    Kurt Schlichter:

    ‘…If you look at everything that is going on, the one common denominator is that every action the woke insurgents take is designed to strip you of your ability to defend your interests, or property, or rights, or life. The idea is to leave you utterly vulnerable, totally exposed, at which point they can do with you as they see fit.

    ‘…And then there's reason. That's a defense too. You can use reason, make arguments, present evidence, and convince people. (But) not if making sense is beside the point.

    'You cannot reason with these people. Forget trying to convince them. You are not going to talk them out of their quest for power over you by deploying bourgeois conceits like "facts" and "evidence." Yet so many of us see what's happening and still take to Twitter or (increasingly) Parler to point out the sheer ridiculousness of the enemy's latest antics. But these actions are not ridiculous. They are tactically genius. Instead of confronting an impenetrable defense, they just scuttle around it and attack into our rear.

    ‘…So how do we beat them?

    ‘Step one is to understand the nature of the fight. It's not one of right and wrong, though that's how they like to disguise it. It is one of power. Give them nothing. Concede nothing. Stop trying to be reasonable with people who think a reasonable compromise is just impoverishing and disenfranchising you instead of stashing you in a gulag or worse.

    ‘Are you still trying to prove to them you aren't "racist?" Why? You aren't, so the hell with them. You owe them no assurances or excuses. They'll just claim your denial is more proof…’

    https://townhall.com/columnists/kurt...sense-n2571665



    A pink shirt and a black rifle.
    Schlicter is, sadly, very perspicacious. The "Woke" bunch intends to make changes in our society as profound as those worked by the American Revolution (and for those of us who will play the role of Loyalists/Tories, there will be Canada to flee to) or French Revolution (and for those of us who will take the place of the ci-devant Aristos, there will be no refuge in Britain) or Russia 1917 (and - no outside support or places to flee with Nansen passports). All there will be is the Place de la Revolution and a meeting with Madame la Guillotine.

    The only (only?) thing we MAY see are the villains turning on one another and eating each other. Will be too late for us, I fear. Perhaps there will be a Napoleon, and the best that can be thought of that is a lot of the "woke" sorts will become cannon fodder.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

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    [QUOTE=Tempest2;10361947]Kurt Schlichter:

    ‘…If you look at everything that is going on, the one common denominator is that every action the woke insurgents take is designed to strip you of your ability to defend your interests, or property, or rights, or life. The idea is to leave you utterly vulnerable, totally exposed, at which point they can do with you as they see fit.

    ‘…And then there's reason. That's a defense too. You can use reason, make arguments, present evidence, and convince people. (But) not if making sense is beside the point.

    'You cannot reason with these people. Forget trying to convince them. You are not going to talk them out of their quest for power over you by deploying bourgeois conceits like "facts" and "evidence." Yet so many of us see what's happening and still take to Twitter or (increasingly) Parler to point out the sheer ridiculousness of the enemy's latest antics. But these actions are not ridiculous. They are tactically genius. Instead of confronting an impenetrable defense, they just scuttle around it and attack into our rear.

    ‘…So how do we beat them?

    ‘Step one is to understand the nature of the fight. It's not one of right and wrong, though that's how they like to disguise it. It is one of power. Give them nothing. Concede nothing. Stop trying to be reasonable with people who think a reasonable compromise is just impoverishing and disenfranchising you instead of stashing you in a gulag or worse.

    ‘Are you still trying to prove to them you aren't "racist?" Why? You aren't, so the hell with them. You owe them no assurances or excuses. They'll just claim your denial is more proof…’

    https://townhall.com/columnists/kurt...sense-n2571665




    and how would you act when this starts to happen?

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/predomina...053912470.html

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    Why, I would invite those armed Americans to attend the next pro-2A, pro-Open Carry rally at the state capitol!

    Here's some of those rights-exercising 'mericans at their own state capitol; they would have been welcomed with open arms at one of those gun events that occurred just a couple weeks earlier there:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	armedblackactivists.jpg 
Views:	3 
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ID:	3684699

    C'mon in fellas; the water's fine and we're all in this together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    I always thought the last official Flag of the Confederacy was pure white?
    my understanding is that when the troops marched to Appomattox, they marched up to the Farm, stacked the muskets, and the troops often cut up the flag they were carrying and distributed the pieces to each other,


    then checked in and went to get their slip
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post

    I have never said traitors are necessarily stupid. they were done and they were willing to take much harsher terms than they got .. the mistake made was thinking that their word was worth something. parole, oath of allegiance wasn't worth shat, and that was their honor.

    Lincoln wanted to rebuild and bring the South back under favorable terms in order to return to a quasi Ante Bellum status quo without slavery. In 65 Johnson was in 'control' but was no match for a lot of people up North who wanted 'payback'.

    Enter the 'Carpetbagger' who, IMO, used the Black man as one of their tools to gain the upper hand and basically take over the South setting terms favorable to themselves. This was done with the help of the Military.

    Ironically, it could be argued that in part the slave to the system still existed in the South it had just changed color.

    Under these conditions how could anyone be expected to keep their word? The black became more of a societal scapegoat than what otherwise may have occurred.

    One has to wonder that if the spirit of Lincolns policies been followed then what might have resulted.
    Last edited by collectR; 07-05-2020 at 12:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest2 View Post
    Why, I would invite those armed Americans to attend the next pro-2A, pro-Open Carry rally at the state capitol!

    Here's some of those rights-exercising 'mericans at their own state capitol; they would have been welcomed with open arms at one of those gun events that occurred just a couple weeks earlier there:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	armedblackactivists.jpg 
Views:	3 
Size:	61.9 KB 
ID:	3684699

    C'mon in fellas; the water's fine and we're all in this together.
    Good point

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest2 View Post
    Why, I would invite those armed Americans to attend the next pro-2A, pro-Open Carry rally at the state capitol!

    Here's some of those rights-exercising 'mericans at their own state capitol; they would have been welcomed with open arms at one of those gun events that occurred just a couple weeks earlier there:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	armedblackactivists.jpg 
Views:	3 
Size:	61.9 KB 
ID:	3684699

    C'mon in fellas; the water's fine and we're all in this together.
    apparently there was a Rally of similar folks in RVA yesterday,
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

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    I'd love to see many who were there start getting The Rifleman every month. Bring us together indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest2 View Post
    I'd love to see many who were there start getting The Rifleman every month. Bring us together indeed.
    Would be nice if they could be weaned away from the Democratic party. Or, if not, if they could work to reduce the official Democratic anti-gun position.
    You sort of pick the group you most associate with most strongly. It doesn't have to be race or ethnic group: it can be by your profession, by your hobbies, your religion, your veteran status, your political party and or beliefs, your economic class, etc. I wish more American could see through this simple truth.
    Of course, that could make US division worse instead of better, but jury would be out if more people did it. Too many see their interests dictated by their main race and/or ethnic group and that is by no means always true.

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    Statue problems possibly solved https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...m-other-cities

    As far as inviting those gentlemen to your next meeting.. I don't think you quite understand the level and depth of their grievance.

    Typified by Rooienk's demand for names

    I looked for names .. had a hard time finding any .. finally remembering that lynching were a popular pastime and that usually they made postcards as souvenirs of lynching I finally found a few names and I also found why names were so hard to find https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...mageHoverTitle and the book https://www.amazon.com/At-Hands-Pers.../dp/0375754458 At the Hands of Persons Unknown: The Lynching of Black America.

    up in post 277 I list another book .. you might look at the review and the explanation of what it is about. that book has names and corporations both north and south that bought Black men out of Southern Jails as labor , that didn't have to be paid some called it "leasing prisoners' " from a county .. that book has names .. since most leased prisoners' were worked to death they have grave yards full of names of the victims and the names of the buyers , all post civil war .. as far as local post slavery slavery it was illegal of Blacks to quit a job with out the employers permission in most of the south after the war .. so they didn't have much bargaining power, if fact they didn't have any say over who claimed to have hired them , whites could just walk up to Blacks and say you now work for me man , woman , or child didn't matter.. and by law the Black had no say in it and couldn't quit regardless .

    This was part of the problem in Ferguson https://www.governing.com/topics/fin...bt-states.html

    from right after the Civil War the system was arresting folks for things like vagrancy ( defined as not have any money on you or nor enough money on you depending on the jurisdiction), taking you to court with no lawyer sentencing you to prison until you paid the monthly increasing fines for your room and board in the jail and then leasing you out to a farmer or logging company or mining company or steel mill that didn't pay enough to the county to cover your bill in other words until you died .. not an exaggeration
    anyway some of the postcards have names of attendees so that would be names of folks that attended the lynching picnic

    By and large nobody saw anything nobody knew anything and nobody ever got tried for the massacres and lynching's, the Klan membership ( mostly ex soldiers of the confederacy was secret) and the white power structure like to pretend none of it happened or made it legal like the leasing arrangements

    it's about a lot more than just shooting folks in the back or strangling them

    And a lot of the official responses are just making it worse. Ignore it all you want, but I think this time it is different.. the Black folks with the guns are armed to protect themselves from the whites marching around with guns, and they don't want to party with you as allies over RKBA . If you only knew how stupid and completely out of touch that sounds .
    Three People to never believe

    A Religious Leader who tells you how to Vote

    A Politician who tells you how to Pray

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    A Draft Dodger who tells you how to be a Patriot

    And Smiling Bob

    Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason toward my country.”
    — PATRICK HENRY

    https://orders.stansberryresearch.co...T137955&page=1

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    Well I suspect the stunned silence to the last post speaks volumes.

    Nevertheless (and returning to the theme of history) the grotesque vandalism against monuments to military figures and the attempt to erase history continues to spread. In Europe statues are now being vandalized as well.

    The entitled mentality of these criminals not only demonstrates an absolute illiteracy of history, law and culture but is in line with that of ISIS and the alibs (when related to history)
    Last edited by Rooinek; 07-11-2020 at 12:01 PM.
    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est

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    Art works for posterity.

    Shoot I will drive down with my trailer and put one up as a lawn ornament, On Private Property, for the sake of preservation.

    Anyway Post 211 by Big Bang should be the solution which has been ignored. and I quote:

    "... Bear with me, I have no dog in this fight. But I live on a continent, where cruel wars happens in short order. Either intra- or inter- nationwide. Since 3000 years. With hecatomb of victims. Alliances this way or the other. Was it worth it??? Don't know. It happens and I can't change it. Shall I blame the French for what Louis XIV or Napoleon did to Germany? Or what DEU did to FRA 1871, 1914, 1940??
    Hell no. Life is to short to develop hard feelings. Get used to it..."

    Or as Seinfeld would say "...someone tryin to 'get hand ' over spilt milk.
    Last edited by collectR; 07-12-2020 at 09:06 AM.

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    wink2 Buy your on statuesque ideals!

    Past..hauntings...present sensitivities ....unreasonably responded to...ignorance ignored ..
    all leads to Elements of elementary education through collage!
    making everything sensitive to a point of digging up hurtings long-standing..

    my families had its our coming to America running from economic slavery...
    im supposed to go after the Leaders, statues of Austrian Hungarian empire...?????????


    I see a money deal coming...!
    like someone said...start making statuses, lawn decorations..
    Lee, Grant, Stonewall,
    Michael Jackson for lbgtf crowds,
    King, Malcolm X..for the freedom movements.
    police, firefighters killed during,911, the planes..
    Texting trump, mindless Biden socialism ..Hillary beast...
    george Washington’s moonshine still, even Burr trader to the future..
    others twisted or patriotism fought for..
    fly you ideals, flags in the front yard..
    ”then tread lightly at taking down history in our front yards...“!

    if you can sale trumpy bears, chess sets with political figures..
    put buy your own statue to destroy or deploy!


    "Christ’s Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

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    Come on now ammosgt, we gotta give the white supremacists a little credit. Instead of just outright hangins and no court they just shoot them in the street, in the back or put a knee on the neck in the name of law. Much more and seemingly humane.
    Don't Violate My Airspace

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    WRT DK Phillips above in post 293 QUOTE Past..hauntings...present sensitivities ....unreasonably responded to...ignorance ignored ..
    all leads to Elements of elementary education through collage!
    making everything sensitive to a point of digging up hurtings long-standing..

    my families had its our coming to America running from economic slavery...
    im supposed to go after the Leaders, statues of Austrian Hungarian empire...END QUOTE

    ....ad nauseam...



    WRT Estaban above in Post 293 Please provide the readers with the following data (with references) before a statement like your Post 293 can be taken seriously:

    i) list, by race, of ALL POPO shootings in the say past 10 years.

    ii) list of all examples of POPO brutality, similar to or greater than the "...knee in the neck in the name of the law...". Oh yeah, this list should be by race.

    Please remember in (i) and (ii) above that you must include ALL races (every ...single...one) as this is more than just a Black issue.

    Fact, lets deal with facts only. I am tired of people cherry picking the topic in order to rationalize their personal view OR Agenda for Social Change.


    Not that I am against Social Change mind you but the problem with the children now a days is they want it Right F*#n now instead of looking in the mirror and working on it.
    Last edited by collectR; 07-12-2020 at 10:53 AM.

  25. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rooinek View Post
    Well I suspect the stunned silence to the last post speaks volumes.

    Nevertheless (and returning to the theme of history) the grotesque vandalism against monuments to military figures and the attempt to erase history continues to spread. In Europe statues are now being vandalized as well.

    The entitled mentality of these criminals not only demonstrates an absolute illiteracy of history, law and culture but is in line with that of ISIS and the alibs (when related to history)
    I don't have anyone on ignore, and don't plan on it,

    I've learned when someone has become what I call a lost cause, or true believer,
    so I just skim thru them, hoping to catch a glimpse of rational thought, and move on,


    not saying or implying that is the case in the post mentioned, but it is what it is,


    as I have posted before, possibly in this thread (not going to look)

    RVA has taken a giant step towards becoming a city like baltimore,(not a compliment) and lost a great potential in tourist income that sadly the local officials have never been able to understand or realize,

    as in some folks would rather be butthurt and destroy vs capitalize on the tourist industry,


    I , and quite a few folks I know, are avoiding as much business as possible with anyone in the City of Richmond,
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

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    292# nauseam ..my statement ..
    be ready to stand defend if slighted face to face..
    don’t be so embarrassing sensitive, winey becoming violently active against dead people and history!
    "Christ’s Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

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    [QUOTE=DK PHILLIPS;...don’t be so embarrassing sensitive, winey becoming violently active against dead people and history![/QUOTE]


    And blaming those alive today for problems that are not yours to bear exclusively for they are problems we must ALL deal with.

    With regards to how much "couch time" is needed for some to 'get over themselves' well I leave that to the pro's.

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    I blame our selves me as a teacher., blaming parents all of us!

    for excepting social sensitive And approving of this perverse look a except actions gays, Liz, mixes of man woman identity
    ...as a new norm in 1970’s....leaking out...
    then fertilizer by socialism expectance into their flocks disrupting families unites identities into...
    have the desires....
    everything's legalized, ok supported by law..now a days..state or federal.
    Now perverted grown, forced others to receive, believe by laws Enforced .
    ..supporting pervasive activities in the open Not in the privacy of the bed room like normal use to be for everyone..
    ..Pandora‘s nasty box open did you partake?
    did you openly disapprove?
    we all gave in...tv stories, shows made it more than daily normal!

    “back to film nori ..conduct codes.” Movie training behaviors unaware..
    Conduct code..good for kids, values and keeping bedroom doors closed.

    free speech, movies values display has its disavowed problems..,
    "Christ’s Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

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    Another vote here for big bang’s post 211.
    Humans ain’t perfect and never will be, build don’t destroy especially when you are fortunate enough to live in the greatest Nation under the greatest Constitution ever devised by human beings.
    DK is spot on about where the blame lies.

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    Whats this thread about again? Oh, statues/monuments.
    If it's on .gov property then it's up for discussion about termination just like any .gov employee by the people, by vote! I personally don't care.
    If the Gray coats don't like it then build a dang private museum to put them in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    Whats this thread about again? Oh, statues/monuments.
    If it's on .gov property then it's up for discussion about termination just like any .gov employee by the people, by vote! I personally don't care.
    If the Gray coats don't like it then build a dang private museum to put them in.
    So you agree that the ill-educated thugs tearing them down are just that.
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    Well, I was borned in Virginia and raised in Texas, think a lot of a bunch of CSA officers and men but what really pisses me off is they’re knocking down one of the my favorites, U.S. Grant.

    These thugs and guerrillas don’t want anything but fundamental change to Marxism for America. It’s about erasing our history not “systemic racism”. Sorry that’s the way I see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    Whats this thread about again? Oh, statues/monuments.
    If it's on .gov property then it's up for discussion about termination just like any .gov employee by the people, by vote! I personally don't care.
    If the Gray coats don't like it then build a dang private museum to put them in.
    Yes, it's part of our history but you don't have to flaunt it in everyone's face especially since ya lost the F'ing war. Should be voted on.
    Don't Violate My Airspace

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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    Yes, it's part of our history but you don't have to flaunt it in everyone's face especially since ya lost the F'ing war. Should be voted on.
    Of course so Columbus, Grant, Washington,Lincoln, all of whose statues have been torn down by thugs are actually flaunting things. Memorials to dead soldiers are flaunting.....I see
    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est

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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    Yes, it's part of our history but you don't have to flaunt it in everyone's face especially since ya lost the F'ing war. Should be voted on.
    It's public property. Destruction of public property is a crime and should be prosecuted and published. It's that simple.
    Now....I have no problem with moving statues, etc., or even destroying them if put to popular vote. In my view, if decided to remove them, they should be put up for public auction and salvage value obtained.
    You'll also need some legislation to cover ALL monuments and art that citizens can find offensive. No additional protection for photographs by people like Mazelthorpe (probably got his name wrong, or at least spelled it wrong) which was federally sanctioned by showing a crucifix in a jar of urine, as I recall correctly. If there really IS a statue of Lenin in Seattle as I think I read on these boards, and if it was paid for by federal funds, than it should also be subject to removal if enough people object to it: and not just Seattle residents either.
    Frankly, I never understood why there's a Holocaust Memorial in DC. I'd have preferred to see a memorial to victims of the slave trade or native Americans who died on the Trail of Tears, for example. American monuments should be for Americans, I think.
    I must say, though, that this is going to be complicated. One man, one vote sounds good and all, but should people living nearby such "offensive" monuments have their vote counted twice compared to out of area residents? Ought to be something like environmental rules which mandates the cost of removal and/or relocation be considered, AND some estimate of the loss of tourist revenue be mandated. Maybe that would be a good assignment for the AOC and the Squad. Also...I think some prosecutors and politicians ought to have some of their legal immunity removed when they act in a corrupt political manner: if it's good for individual police officers, it should be good for them as well. Should be expanded to Congress, executive branch, judiciary, etc.
    This could lead to a real slippery slope, as well: but it would be better than unchecked vandalism, arson and looting. Except...that they are simple crimes and should be treated accordingly.

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    seems you are interested on voting for statues .. kind of ironic, seems a big part of the problem is that people of color or women weren't allowed to even vote when some of these went up .. certainly weren't allowed to vote for most of the questionable people they made statues of at all .

    Nice that you think you deserve a vote, mighty white of you! And I don't think most of the votes will come out the way you expect.. if everybody gets to vote!

    Should have listened to Abigail Adams in the first place.

    The future First Lady wrote in part, “I long to hear that you have declared an independency. And, by the way, in the new code of laws which I suppose it will be necessary for you to make, I desire you would remember the ladies and be more generous and favorable to them than your ancestors. Do not put such unlimited power into the hands of the husbands. Remember, all men would be tyrants if they could. If particular care and attention is not paid to the ladies, we are determined to foment a rebellion, and will not hold ourselves bound by any laws in which we have no voice or representation.”

    probably why we aren't all in a thither over statues of Women
    Last edited by AmmoSgt; 07-13-2020 at 04:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    Should have listened to Abigail Adams in the first place.

    The future First Lady wrote in part, “I long to hear that you have declared an independency. And, by the way, in the new code of laws which I suppose it will be necessary for you to make, I desire you would remember the ladies and be more generous and favorable to them than your ancestors. Do not put such unlimited power into the hands of the husbands. Remember, all men would be tyrants if they could. If particular care and attention is not paid to the ladies, we are determined to foment a rebellion, and will not hold ourselves bound by any laws in which we have no voice or representation.”

    probably why we aren't all in a thither over statues of Women
    You do realize that a significant number of the statues of Confederates were funded by women (Daughters of the Confederacy). No you probably did not.

    You realize that a statue in Baltimore dedicated to Confederate women was taken down. No you probably did not.

    https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-sc...-26844989.html

    How did you put it? Oh yes. “ ironic”

    Of course there is a statue given to a people who did not allow women to vote by a people who did not let women vote. Of all the ironies it is a statue of a woman (Statue of Liberty) and yes she should stay exactly where she is.


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    private money on private property is about money .. regardless who pays for itt on public space even the poorest person gets a equal vote.. money isn't democracy .. maybe Soros might decide to commission and pay for for and donate 200 statues of himself tomorrow morning and put them in front of courthouses in the South they would all be okay with you because he paid for them and donated them ??
    Come on, think man
    a few former slave owning women want to commemorate their dead traitor husbands and all women are going to be cool with that.

    you just don't get it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caledonian View Post
    I think the preservation of slavery in the mid-nineteenth century was monstrously wrong, and I don't think, despite all that gets said about states' rights, the secession was about much besides that one, big, malodorous right. But it would be wrong to call those who fought for the South traitors in any convenventional or legal sense. The role of the US government as a paramount authority had grown considerably in the lifetimes of many then alive, and wasn't nearly as widely agreed as it later would be. Many, including Lee, were deeply tormented by the conflict of loyalties, before deciding that their prime duty was to their state. I don't think the old cliché of brother against brother was often true. Families usually went the same way. But it did what many would consider as bad, by splitting military units.

    it puzzles many that people fought for the Confederacy, and fought extremely well, who neither owned slaves or expected to. But a classical education was common in the Southern upper classes, and brought with it a knowledge of what slavery did to Rome. Slaves, sometimes rented-out slaves who hardly ever worked for their owners, did most of the manual work, while free plebeians turned into a largely unproductive class, kept sweet with bread and circuses. In the American South, manual workers were often undercut on wages by slaves, and thought of total emancipation as economic wipeout for them.

    Of course there were plantations which treated their slaves barbarously, and balanced out lasting power and maintenance costs as a factory would its machines. The common claim was that the new, very large factory-farming plantations in the southwest were much worse than those on the Atlantic coast. Equally there were plantation owners who prided themselves on knowing their slaves, and giving them a good life. Some never flogged anyone, and despised those who would have a field hand washed for the young master's recreation. Much has been made of the black Jeffersons, verified by DNA testing and acknowledged as family by the right-side-of-the-blanket descendants. But like a young executive and the typing pool, that.

    I am sure both sides executed deserters, with minimal formality in times of stress, but 100,000 is a wild and offensive guess. I am reminded of the writings of Lieutenant Spears, liaison officer with a French army, who became a personal friend of generals, and later himself a major-general and adviser to Churchill. He was particularly fond of General Maud'huy, although he considered him to have reached his limit at command of a division. At one point during the frightful strain of the 1914 great retreat, the general had to condemn a soldier for desertion when he may have been little more than a straggler, and found him in an extreme state of mental breakdown. The general explained politely and calmly that if the army broke down, their country would be lost. So he had to die, and for the good of the army he had to compose himself and go calmly to death, knowing that he served his country in so doing, as much as anyone could by dying in battle. The man went happily to death - well, just a little unhappily I suppose - and the army held toether until in due course Joffre saw the moment which Churchill had predicted as the fortieth day, years earlier.
    Very well stated, and with some good points. I had a history professor at The University of Georgia who had a theory that the Civil War was caused by Southern women. His elaboration explained that they basically supported the idea: "Johnny, are you gonna let a bunch of Yankees tell you what to do, and what's good for us ?"

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    [QUOTE=Estaban;10374631]Whats this thread about again? Oh, statues/monuments.
    If it's on .gov property then it's up for discussion about termination just like any .gov employee by the people, by vote! I personally don't care.
    If the Gray coats don't like it then build a dang private museum to put them in.[/QUOTE]

    There is a little town here in Tejas named Anderson. County seat of Grime County. Some years ago, someone geared up to offer (at PRIVATE expense) a statue in honor of the Texans who served in the War of Northern Aggression. A black so-called "Civil rights" (how about the rights, civil and otherwise, of the majority of the folks inhabiting the nation?) with some influence in the Legislature threatened to derail needed legislation if the county accepted the donation (using rather ugly tactics according to a state legislator I knew who was in office at the time). Also stirred up opposition to the location in Grimes County (racial in nature). Result? Well, seems there had been a fire that destroyed a building a block from the courthouse in "downtown" Anderson. Proposed donor wound up establishing a non-profit to buy that lot, put up the statue and related matters in a small, nice, PRIVATE park. I will note that have never heard a word of complaint about it given the location, despite a significant number of black folks living in Grimes County. I suppose the modern "Woke" sort, BLM et al, will eventually vandalize, topple, and demand removal despite it being on private property. In the long run, I don't expect your suggestion to be viable, however reasonable it sounds on its face. For a piccie of the statue - https://www.pinterest.com/pin/466404105129588441/

    "Once you pay the Danegeld, you'll never get rid of the Dane"...
    Last edited by Clyde; 07-13-2020 at 04:22 PM.
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    often wonder what that inciting act of Northern aggression that started it all and makes you thing the North was the aggressor was that started the war ? just curious not trying to start an argument
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    often wonder what that inciting act of Northern aggression that started it all and makes you thing the North was the aggressor was that started the war ? just curious not trying to start an argument
    Sending the Star of the West is generally considered the FIRST Nawthern act (beyond what Lincoln the Tyrant's supporters SAID to expect during the campaign of 1860). And of course the call for 100K volunteers and the attack into Virginia at Manassas (Bull Run to the Yankees) plus the suppression of the people of Maryland when they sought to express theior views on things.

    I will say it was nice of the DamnYankees to allow the people of Maryland to keep their "servants bound for life" until ratification of the XIIIth Amendment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    Sending the Star of the West is generally considered the FIRST Nawthern act (beyond what Lincoln the Tyrant's supporters SAID to expect during the campaign of 1860). And of course the call for 100K volunteers and the attack into Virginia at Manassas (Bull Run to the Yankees) plus the suppression of the people of Maryland when they sought to express theior views on things.

    I will say it was nice of the DamnYankees to allow the people of Maryland to keep their "servants bound for life" until ratification of the XIIIth Amendment.
    Rebs fired first. There it is. The War of the Rebellion.
    The "traitor" stuff is overstated. To southerners, loyalty to state trumped the federal union. Principled men followed their southern states into secession even when they were personally opposed. Some vets need to learn to think for themselves instead of parroting whatever the latest high ranking officer states to the news media. IF Washington, et al had lost the Revolutionary War, they'd have been traitors.
    Of course, large number of southerners supported the union throughout the war. They were considered traitors in the Confederacy.
    Large quantities of Germans in both First and Second World Wars were in the French Foreign Legion and almost all of them stayed loyal to the Legion from what I've read. Does that make them traitors to Germany?
    Methinks the Confederacy stepped on more individual rights than any thing the Union did. (I have issues to a number of responses on both sides to this post.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    Yes, it's part of our history but you don't have to flaunt it in everyone's face especially since ya lost the F'ing war. Should be voted on.
    No, it should NOT be voted on. We, the people, live in a Republic, a Representative Democracy. We have elected people to handle these questions. And should DEMAND that they do it. Including by shooting squads and battalions of rioters who insist on vandalizing things instead of going home and voting next election.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    seems you are interested on voting for statues .. kind of ironic, seems a big part of the problem is that people of color or women weren't allowed to even vote when some of these went up .. certainly weren't allowed to vote for most of the questionable people they made statues of at all .

    Nice that you think you deserve a vote, mighty white of you! And I don't think most of the votes will come out the way you expect.. if everybody gets to vote!

    Should have listened to Abigail Adams in the first place.

    The future First Lady wrote in part, “I long to hear that you have declared an independency. And, by the way, in the new code of laws which I suppose it will be necessary for you to make, I desire you would remember the ladies and be more generous and favorable to them than your ancestors. Do not put such unlimited power into the hands of the husbands. Remember, all men would be tyrants if they could. If particular care and attention is not paid to the ladies, we are determined to foment a rebellion, and will not hold ourselves bound by any laws in which we have no voice or representation.”

    probably why we aren't all in a thither over statues of Women
    What ever you say white woman.
    I have more latin genes that go back to Africa than you prolly do.
    It's public property, needs a vote. As disgusting as they are. Like I said, those rich an powerful gray coats should step up and buy them to reimburse the public or forever see them lost. Put up or shut up.
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