A hilariously fake “original matching” PU sniper - SN MH4255
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Thread: A hilariously fake “original matching” PU sniper - SN MH4255

  1. #1
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    Default A hilariously fake “original matching” PU sniper - SN MH4255

    Sold for $1455 shipped.

    To be fair, it started life as a PU, and ended up as an ex sniper refurb.

    I was laughing the entire time scrolling through pictures. No effort to conceal the fake mount and base besides a haphazard stamp, the scope number...all of it. I hope you all get a good laugh out of it too.

    A lot of Krap guns coming from this seller. I think it’s important to share these so lurkers can see. A NR bidder won so we may see this turd again. It always takes at least two to drive up that hammer price...

    Heres the link-
    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/869419340

    Primary pictures for those that don’t want to go through 50 pictures of comedy.







    Last edited by 81turbota; 06-07-2020 at 09:24 PM.

  2. #2
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    Wow that's awesome!

    While I am a fan of High Condition WWII P38’s, Phosphate Mauser P38’s, Police P38’s, All Correct High Condition K98’s, Some Capture Papered, Rare Japanese Pistols, All Correct High Condition Japanese Rifles, K Suffix PPK’s, Boxed WWII Walther’s, All SS Contract, Bank PP’s, Railway PP’s, RJ PP’s, PDM’, and highly collectible SS marked rusty boat anchors, I see nothing wrong here!


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    Oh, and it gets even sweeter!!!! This rifle has been listed on this forum before. You can make out the listed scope number under the punch marks, b 11255. I don’t know what’s going on with the Finnish claims...but it’s the same rifle.

    TURD ALERT

    Post #400 in this thread, pictured and linked.

    https://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...24#post2190924


    Last edited by 81turbota; 06-08-2020 at 01:17 AM.

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    What is the connection between the pictured gun (Soviet refurb) and the the gun described in the 2012 forum post (Finn Capture)?

    These don't look or sound at all like the same rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martin08 View Post
    What is the connection between the pictured gun (Soviet refurb) and the the gun described in the 2012 forum post (Finn Capture)?

    These don't look or sound at all like the same rifle.
    Serial number, date, scope number stamped and then struck are identical between the rifle pictured and the one described in 2012. 1944 Izhevsk PU, SN MH4255 with an original scope number of b11255. It was originally posted in a thread for Izhevsk snipers. It sounds based on the 2012 post this was a resnipered barreled action (at least), with a different replacement scope and what the OP thought was a Finn stock. Without pictures from the 2012 post it’s hard to say exactly what form it was in then but it’s undeniably the same rifle described.

    I was confused at first as I read the post too fast and overlooked the second rifle described in the first paragraph.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don in SC View Post
    Three Izhevsk 1944 ex-snipers.

    M H 4255 lined out scope number b 11255 This rifle appears to be ia Finish capture and The scope is now 43102251. Front sight is Finish, stock is finish and it has the typical finish match like trigger pull. I can not find any SA/SKY or other Finish markings so That's why I do not know for sure.





    Since that post in 2012 this rifle has taken its current form.
    Last edited by 81turbota; 06-08-2020 at 01:38 AM.

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    Wow! Lots of finishes and finish markings! This rifle is definitely finished...

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    Did the seller re stamp the barrel to make it appear scope and barrel serial # matched ? Just curious.

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    His buddy Wasabijack who "won" the turd sniper really likes commblock stuff. Bid this Bulgarian Mak up to $2K:

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/869753831

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    Whatever the seller is, he's a master salesman.

    Black gloves to get buyers to subconsciously perceive that whatever is being sold must be top quality and or rarity due to glove treatment.
    His titles are "Very RARE unique ORIGINAL fill in the blank here MINTY" to catch the eye and get people excited.(I personally blame this guy for the term "Minty" being used so often now.)
    His auctions never fail to get high retail or beyond, the new younger grey blanket I think. Because of that I will never bother bidding.

    Rutherfordton(next town over) is a very small town with few collectors. 2+ years back there was a small church gun show. Among the typical buyers was this guy running up and down the aisles wearing a large backpack, looking like he was on a mission. I had just picked up an M91 in a 91/30 stock when he rushes up behind me and loudly proclaimed how he wasn't interested and it was a put together rifle, then proceeded to scamper around the show at a fast pace and left. I get a weird feeling this is that same guy.. Just too small of a town. (I purchased the M91 for $175 anyways)

    I wonder if he's found a local collector that's passed and has been selling the stuff? I'll admit that when it comes to the catchy titles on gunbroker, I've stolen and reused his method.
    Last edited by ncreptile; 06-08-2020 at 07:30 AM.
    Jack of all milsurps, master of none.

  12. #11
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    That's the nice thing about PU snipers, there are so many ways to spot the fakes/reproductions/resnipered. From the import mark to the date/receiver type to the mount finish.. Scrolled to picture 4 or 5, saw that phosphate style finish on the mount and went back to searching on gunbroker.
    Jack of all milsurps, master of none.

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    Ncreptile, yes he always seems to get high prices. If it’s working for him I guess...I personally despise all his unrelated key words which spam my searches. Also claiming things are “original matching”, shown here which is a load of crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
    Did the seller re stamp the barrel to make it appear scope and barrel serial # matched ? Just curious.
    I can’t say it was the seller but someone added that scope number.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigwagon View Post
    His buddy Wasabijack who "won" the turd sniper really likes commblock stuff. Bid this Bulgarian Mak up to $2K:

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/869753831
    $2K Bulgarian Mak? Nuts. It was one other and this “wasabijack” taking it from $655 when others dropped out.

    Whoever Wasabijack and the NR bidder of the sniper turd, Midnightjack are, at least one other apparently legitimate bidder took it to $1150. Bidding war from there.
    Last edited by 81turbota; 06-08-2020 at 09:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ncreptile View Post
    That's the nice thing about PU snipers, there are so many ways to spot the fakes/reproductions/resnipered. From the import mark to the date/receiver type to the mount finish.. Scrolled to picture 4 or 5, saw that phosphate style finish on the mount and went back to searching on gunbroker.
    Yep. I don't even feel sorry for the "winner" of this auction. If you do zero diligence, let alone due diligence in the milsurp game, you've made your own bed.






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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Relic View Post
    Yep. I don't even feel sorry for the "winner" of this auction. If you do zero diligence, let alone due diligence in the milsurp game, you've made your own bed.
    +1. Lots of resources concerning Russian PU snipers.

    It is good to see threads like this. The best way to protect our hobby it by calling out the fakers. Good job guys.

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    I feel the same; call them out on their crap. Marcus use to call out the old sniper faker from Eagle ID every time he posted a new turd.

    There has been plenty of PU turds fabricated out of Harbor Freight stamp kits on GB over the last year or so. Same crap lines; all matching, original, yada yada yada.

    New collectors can get a pretty good handle on whats legit by visiting the sniper forum and doing some research. If in doubt contact a member with your questions before bidding.
    Interested in buying a factory original Izhevsk PU sniper with original wartime matched scope. Long shot but a guy can dream!

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    Yeah nobody of consequence ever gets nailed on those retooled fake snipers so encourage everybody to make them and some poor worthless slob will get his just due? Bill
    zeebill live from the hills of West Virginia!

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    One of the major purveyors of "factory matching" PUs on Gunbroker was significantly impaired by the Cole's fire (they were his source for many of the ex PUs).



    Quote Originally Posted by zeebill View Post
    Yeah nobody of consequence ever gets nailed on those retooled fake snipers so encourage everybody to make them and some poor worthless slob will get his just due? Bill
    The people who keep buying this crap despite all the easily accessible knowledge are the ones encouraging it. I bet they read all the online reviews before they buy a $75 blender, though.






  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Relic View Post
    Yep. ... If you do zero diligence, let alone due diligence in the milsurp game, you've made your own bed.

    The people who keep buying this crap despite all the easily accessible knowledge are the ones encouraging it. I bet they read all the online reviews before they buy a $75 blender, though.
    Relic: I'm going to take both these quotes over to the Enfield Forum and stick my foot in the punch bowl with them. Over there is a long series of cheerleaders who have bought garbage rifles and chumming the waters about how wonderful they are...only to snooker other novices to buy same garbage and be stuck with expensive garbage grade No.4 rifles. I've been calling this nonsense out for weeks but your comments are nice grenades to lob and hopefully wake some people to their senses.

  20. #19
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    Milprileb, couldn't agree more. As you know, I'm a regular also over on the Enfield forum. Seeing lots of people getting burned on garbage rifles. Shame really, little research/asking for advice can save you a whole headache!

    With fake stamping, how does one spot them? Is it the font? Granted this rifle sticks out like a sore thumb as I have never seen a mosin with a serail like that!

    Cheers all.

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    Okay guys I no nothing about Nagants So a bit of help. A person I was acquainted with Sold me a couple. He was charged (later convicted) of kidnapping a rape and to pay his attorney fees he sold off his guns for next to nothing. I got the Blonde for 50 bucks and he inlaid a soviet coin in the left butt. The Redhead (sniper) was 200. I assume it's a put together or not a real sniper. I do like it for the price but I'm sure I didn't stumble into a real sniper rifle of any kind.Click image for larger version. 

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    “ Gentlemen, we may not make History tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the Geography”

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    Hi Mustang,

    Your PU is a fantasy piece. The first red flag is no PU’s we’re made with 1931 rifles or hex receivers.

    With that’s said, enjoy it for what it is and I’m sure it’ll be a fun range toy. $250 in both rifles is an incredible deal I wouldn’t worry about it.

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    Is it a refurb or something to that effect that was done later or done at a gun shop once it got here? I didn't think I stumbled onto a diamond in the rough, but hell for the price it's fun.
    What is the "sniper" worth? I figure not much but I have a large collection and I insure all my babies for at value.
    “ Gentlemen, we may not make History tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the Geography”

    General Herbert Plumer before detonation of 450 tons of explosive – Messines Ridge, June 1917.

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    You sniped those!
    "Christ’s Grace + being constitutionally solvent !"

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    The PU is a non-sniper 91/30 with a repro scope setup, but still may be a good shooter. I'd say it's worth at least somewhere in the $500s.






  26. #25
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    Like to have one sighted in ready to go at that price..for sure.
    "Christ’s Grace + being constitutionally solvent !"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Relic View Post
    The PU is a non-sniper 91/30 with a repro scope setup, but still may be a good shooter. I'd say it's worth at least somewhere in the $500s.
    So I didn't get bit too bad then. How can you tell the scope setup is repro?
    “ Gentlemen, we may not make History tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the Geography”

    General Herbert Plumer before detonation of 450 tons of explosive – Messines Ridge, June 1917.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 87mustang View Post
    So I didn't get bit too bad then. How can you tell the scope setup is repro?

    Flat head (as opposed to domed) screws in the scope knobs, "N4" serial prefix on the scope, and swirled machining marks on the outside (as opposed to the inside) of the mount are among the many hallmarks of repro scopes/mounts.

    Lots of threads in the sniper forum here will be useful if you're looking to learn more about PUs, and this page is also good research material:
    https://www.wwiigermansniper.com/kochetov-side-mount






  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Relic View Post
    Flat head (as opposed to domed) screws in the scope knobs, "N4" serial prefix on the scope, and swirled machining marks on the outside (as opposed to the inside) of the mount are among the many hallmarks of repro scopes/mounts.

    Lots of threads in the sniper forum here will be useful if you're looking to learn more about PUs, and this page is also good research material:
    https://www.wwiigermansniper.com/kochetov-side-mount

    Damn I didn't realize this was this big. I kinda figured It was not real but you know kinda hoped too.
    “ Gentlemen, we may not make History tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the Geography”

    General Herbert Plumer before detonation of 450 tons of explosive – Messines Ridge, June 1917.

  30. #29
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    Hey now.... before we get TOOO crazy here... Ill give you that the scope mount looks a bit suspect, but the subject of the OP is about just a matched as my sniper which is a JG sales import ( from batches known by Tuco et al to be legit with traceable provenance.. and not a recent put together)
    Are the scope serial on the received fake? It wasnt uncommon for the scope and rifle to be separated and re-paired with different "matches" during refit
    It is also a pretty late refit..1966?? Click image for larger version. 

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    The only problem with collections, is they keep getting bigger.
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    Your mount and scope are original Soviet, both refurbished. I can't tell the date from the photo when the scope was refurbished (1964?), but if you say 1966, then that's probably it. No, it's not uncommon for these to be refurbished into the 60's.

    As to the rest of the rifle you'd need to post more/better photos of the barrel shank, serial numbers, markings, etc.

  32. #31
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    My question about receiver stamping was about the original post. I know mine is real. I'm in the maternity ward....so I can't get to my safe to double check right now :-) . I think IIRC my refurb is late 50's.

    Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk
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