3 Dumb Self-Defense Myths That Could Land You in Jail
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    Default 3 Dumb Self-Defense Myths That Could Land You in Jail

    3 Dumb Self-Defense Myths That Could Land You in Jail
    Freedoms Lodge ^ | June 7, 2020 | Mo Rockwell
    Posted on 6/8/2020, 6:28:26 AM by COBOL2Java

    Tater Salad weighs in on the controversy…

    Right now, the media is spreading myths about self-defense that will send you to the Gray-Bar Hotel.

    It certainly doesn’t help that the current front-runner for the Democratic nomination for President, Joe Biden, is so grievously misinformed about guns and the use of lethal force–and that the mainstream media is so happy to repeat his misinformation–but his most recent comments merely reflect a myth about self-defense that has been around for a very long time. There are others that will no doubt begin circulating if they haven’t already, and they’re extremely dangerous. In these times of not-so-civil civil unrest, these self-defense myths could cost you your freedom…or your life. That’s because each of these myths about armed self-defense run counter to the central tenet of same, which is: We do not shoot to warn, to wound, or to kill; we only shoot to stop the threat. Here’s what we mean.

    Say hi to your new cellie! You can braid his hair later.
    Stupid Self-Defense Myth #1: Shoot ’em in the leg!

    This, sadly, is what happens when you have an entire generation that got their information about how guns work from Hollywood. Joe Biden was recently quoted suggesting that the police ought to be trained to deliberately shoot to wound. Joe, I hate to break it to you, but “shoot ’em in the leg instead of the heart” only works if you are The Terminator; furthermore, I’m sorry to report that The Terminator is actually a fictional character. And also a robot.
    For the record, here’s why deliberately shooting to wound is a terrible idea that might get you killed or jailed. First, shooting at small, fast-moving targets like the arms or legs is extremely difficult to do accurately–ask anyone who’s ever spent time on the range plinking at spinning targets. That means that your chances of missing your target go up exponentially…and that bullet will keep traveling after it misses, potentially harming an innocent person.


    Secondly, the way American laws work with regards to armed self-defense is that the defender must be in imminent danger of death or grievous bodily injury. Taking the time to carefully aim at an attacker’s extremities is, possibly, evidence that you weren’t really in imminent danger at all.

    Your new cellie thinks warning shots are a great idea, too.
    Stupid Self-Defense Myth #2: Give ’em a warning shot!

    Oh my, isn’t this interesting? One of the most prominent founts of the “give ’em a warning shot” advice also happens to be the current front-runner for the Democratic nomination, Joe Biden. It’s one of those ideas that seems like it makes sense until you think about it for half a second; after all, none of us wants to shoot another human being if we don’t have to, and it would sure be nice if we could just scare the attacker off. Here’s the problem with that: Just like the “shoot ’em in the leg” advice, many courts will (rightly) interpret the fact that you gave a warning shot as evidence that you were not in imminent danger. If you had time to warn your attacker, they’ll argue, the danger wasn’t imminent enough to merit skinning your iron.

    Furthermore, unless that “warning shot” went directly and deliberately into a safe backstop, there’s always the danger of your shot hitting an innocent person. Remember that every single bullet may have only cost 50 cents per round at the store, but once it leaves the muzzle of your gun it has a $10,000 lawyer attached to it.

    New cellie or Biden campaign manager?
    Stupid Self-Defense Myth #3: Shoot ’em in the head and kill them!

    Before we get started, I’ll concede that this is the “least stupid” of the three stupid myths. The third shot of the Mozambique Drill goes into the oval-shaped target that represents the top of the face, and is supposed to be the coup de grace if the first double-tap to the center of mass doesn’t stop the attacker. Note, however, that the Mozambique Drill is also known as the “failure drill,” and was created for those occasions when the first two shots don’t work because they either missed the center of mass, or the force of inertia is still carrying the attacker forward. That’s because headshots, like shots to the arm or leg, are shots to a small moving target. Missing a headshot is all too easy, even for well-trained shooters, and a miss could mean a wounded innocent bystander.

    Finally, “shoot ’em in the head” is bad advice because, again, it runs counter to the central tenet of self-defense: We do not shoot to wound, we do not shoot to warn, we shoot to stop the threat. Whether the attacker who was trying to kill you lives or dies isn’t your problem. Your one and only goal is to survive the encounter; whether the attacker survives is up to the emergency responders that you will call as soon as you have stopped the threat. (Interestingly, with prompt medical attention, about 73% of people shot with handguns will survive.)


    Chances are pretty good that you, the Freedom’s Lodge reader, already know pretty well that these pieces of “advice” aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on or the air it took to form the words. However, when you’ve got people as prominent as a Presidential candidate spreading this b.s., it’s important to make sure people understand the truth



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    Thought the danger may also apply in defence of others around you, eg. family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by staffy View Post
    Thought the danger may also apply in defence of others around you, eg. family.
    Does not have to be "family" either, anyone else who is nearby.

    That opens up the whole dead-horse-beating-contest as to the perceived WISDOM of shooting someone to protect someone else, but, in most states, the law is actually clearly written and not arguable.
    I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.

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    Montana,

    Great Post! I like the photos of the "rehabilitated" critters. LOL. I agree with your statement about how many people get their gun information from Hollywood. Once I helped a group of folks hunt for a lost hunter. We found the guy and he was ok. Another member of the search team stepped a few feet away and announced, "I will fire a warning shot" and then shot his revolver up into the air. I asked him why he did not just fire his revolver safely into a nearby dirt bank since it would have made the SAME amount of noise? I asked him where his airborne projectile would land? No answer!

    One day at the range a few years ago I watched a fellow fire his .45 auto pistol down range and then point the fully charged gun at his lips, with his finger on the trigger, as he BLEW down the barrel! I asked him what that blow business was all about? He said, "I saw Hop Along Cassidy do it and it looked cool." ??? You CANNOT Cure STUPID!

    Finally, in the 1980s I was on my club outdoor range in NH shooting my newly acquired 6.5" M29 .44 Magnum revolver. One other young lad was shooting two benches away that nice May Saturday morning. He wandered over and asked, "Is that Dirty Harry's gun?" I said it was and he asked to shoot it. I handed the gun to him and 6 rounds. He loaded the open cylinder and THEN he jauntily flicked his right hand to the right, ala KOJO, to close the cylinder!! I had just left S&W's Armorer's School and was tempted to kick his butt up to his shoulder blades, but did not. Hollywood Gun Instruction, indeed.

    Be Well.

    Webley

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    My friend clicked the cylinder on my J frame like that. I nearly cried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeACTM View Post
    My friend clicked the cylinder on my J frame like that. I nearly cried.
    Bend things, or did you get lucky?
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

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    Didn't crazy Uncle Joe also recommend just shooting a shotgun through the closed door at a would be intruder?

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    Crazy Uncle Joe recommended just stepping out on your patio and firing a blast from your shotgun up in the air to scare off intruders.

    Just the other day he recommended shooting people in the legs instead of "shooting to kill", whatever THAT is.

    Basic Rule...... if it's critical enough to fire a gun, it makes no difference if the subject is killed or wounded.
    If it's not THAT serious.... don't fire at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfariswheel View Post
    Crazy Uncle Joe recommended just stepping out on your patio and firing a blast from your shotgun up in the air to scare off intruders.

    Just the other day he recommended shooting people in the legs instead of "shooting to kill", whatever THAT is.

    Basic Rule...... if it's critical enough to fire a gun, it makes no difference if the subject is killed or wounded.
    If it's not THAT serious.... don't fire at all.
    dfariswheel,

    You got it right. At my old agency, firing a warning shot got you fired!

    Webley

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webley One View Post
    dfariswheel,

    You got it right. At my old agency, firing a warning shot got you fired!

    Webley
    And curst well should everywhere.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

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    At the 1991 SHOT Show in Dallas, TX I was talking with Gary Haslu, a Professional Hunter from South Africa, when another man stopped by. Gary introduced him to me (name forgotten) as the man who had started the Two to the Body, One to the Head. His story was they were on an across the border operation, very thick brush, he had a FN rifle. He almost literally bumped into a bad guy with a SKS. They both tried to swing their rifles towards each other as they were just a little offset from each other, but the rifles got hung up on the heavy brush. The man telling the story had a pistol, I believe he said a Star in 9mm in a shoulder holster, so he grabbed it and shot the bad guy twice in the chest, but he did not fall, so he shot him in the head. The reason he did not fall according to the story teller, was he was being supported by the heavy brush, but due to the excitement he did not realize that until after the shooting was over. John

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    wink2

    After the first missed shots in the open...
    Your hollow points are good to penetrate barriers hiding behind?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfariswheel View Post
    Crazy Uncle Joe recommended just stepping out on your patio and firing a blast from your shotgun up in the air to scare off intruders.

    Just the other day he recommended shooting people in the legs instead of "shooting to kill", whatever THAT is.

    Basic Rule...... if it's critical enough to fire a gun, it makes no difference if the subject is killed or wounded.
    If it's not THAT serious.... don't fire at all.
    Yes it does. In one instance there is someone to dispute your account of the affair. In the other, there is no one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpw View Post
    Yes it does. In one instance there is someone to dispute your account of the affair. In the other, there is no one.
    cpw,

    +1!

    I would prefer only One Story! Be Well.

    Webley

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    And our minds “create” Memory’s during these type of events, your own and witnesses!
    "Christ’s Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DK PHILLIPS View Post
    After the first missed shots in the open...
    Your hollow points are good to penetrate barriers hiding behind?
    What "barriers" do you expect people to be hiding behind AFTER trying to shoot you?
    I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.

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    What would you hide behind...?
    “the barriers immediate ducking for coverage to?“
    leading to a clip of FMJ’s from your hiding place!
    "Christ’s Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

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    I suppose he meant well...
    As I read of Joe's advise, I wondered if he knew (knew he didn't!) how long it takes to bleed out if the femoral is hit.
    A method of 'shoot to kill'

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    Good post Montana [don't feed the bears], True story. A very nice never married older guy [maybe 30] that I worked with for years married a sketchy gal whose thug ex boyfriend showed up on their wedding night with his friend and proceeded to try a beatdown on him. He beat them both off eventually using an iron on one until it was just a handle with jagged plastic edges so he was drawing blood every time he hit the fool. They ran when they heard the sirens only to get into another brawl at the ER where they all wound up 45 min later. Long story short, she of course went back to the thug ex and my bud got a divorce, so he goes to where she’s staying to get some dumb car papers signed. Well, the thug decided to continue the fight so my not too bright bud pulls his 9mm and shoots the thug in both legs. He was charged with assault but in order to keep his real job and stay out of jail had to pay the known by the cops thug $20,000.00 in reparation. Dumb thing is he could have killed them both when they kicked in his door at their first encounter and nothing would have happened except 2 less thugs in the world. Shoot to end the action is what I was taught in my ccw class, theoretically 2 rounds center mass. Only in a mass shooting situation where you have a tactical edge on a distracted attacker and he’s wearing body armor would you get away with multiple body or a head shot.
    Last edited by Baltimoreed; 06-15-2020 at 12:06 PM.
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    Are we doing a thread on dumb things politicians say about guns? Is this OK? , seems political. Not sure how it is about CCW either.


    Then with this allowed I suppose we can talk about flip flopping statements by politicians right?
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump...b0d043dd74412f
    Last edited by Estaban; 06-24-2020 at 12:41 PM.
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    Started out with sound advice not to believe some common myths.
    Some just happened to come from political people.
    Hope most people here already know them to be false but still good advice.
    Gary

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    Only noobs would do that. If you have to legally shoot in defense of yourself, family and property you shoot to kill. Otherwise they will end up sueing you. But you better damn well know your states laws. They ain't all the same.
    Don't Violate My Airspace

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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    Only noobs would do that. If you have to legally shoot in defense of yourself, family and property you shoot to kill. Otherwise they will end up sueing you. But you better damn well know your states laws. They ain't all the same.
    Or have a place to hide the body. No body, no witness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpw View Post
    Or have a place to hide the body. No body, no witness.
    cpw,

    A "Good Shoot" will get a citizen in jail after the shooting by his/her tampering with the evidence, altering the crime scene, etc. Testifying later in court to the altered situation results in Perjury, a Felony, which compounds the crime and conviction will result in the otherwise honest citizen being a prohibited person, who may never own a gun again and may do hard time!

    Modern forensics has forever altered the "Old Boy" advice to "drag them in and put a knife/gun in their hand." A good shoot can go BAD by lying. When you tell the truth, then you only need to recite ONE Story.

    Webley

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    How about the suggestion that you use a cheap firearm, that way when it's taken for evidence it doesn't hurt so much ? I also recall Massad Ayoob-an LEO-emphasizing that the only thing you say to the police is "There's been a shooting !" and you will say nothing else until you have spoken to counsel .

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigshr View Post
    I also recall Massad Ayoob-an LEO-emphasizing that the only thing you say to the police is "There's been a shooting !" and you will say nothing else until you have spoken to counsel .
    Thats not a horrible idea, if you want to spend some time in jail until you get to see counsel. I would recommend telling the officers it was self defense, then leave it at that.
    Don't Violate My Airspace

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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    Thats not a horrible idea, if you want to spend some time in jail until you get to see counsel. I would recommend telling the officers it was self defense, then leave it at that.
    Estaban,

    +1! Tell the police, "I used my CCW gun to defend against deadly force directed at me. Here is my License and my gun. I have called my attorney and will cooperate fully with presence of my counsel."

    Never let the officers lull you into a mindless chat after they say, "We just want your side of the story." A defensive shooting is a traumatic event for the survivor. Have your lawyer assist you during the police interview.

    Sigshr suggested a CCW person use a cheap gun because it may not be returned for a long time. I reject that advice because a cheap handgun may not be 100% reliable. I suggest having a few reliable guns on hand to deal with the next criminal encounter.

    Webley

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    Quote Originally Posted by DK PHILLIPS View Post
    What would you hide behind...?
    “the barriers immediate ducking for coverage to?“
    leading to a clip of FMJ’s from your hiding place!

    Again, WHAT BARRIERS?
    Your privacy fence?
    Your own car?
    The Gas Pump you are next to?
    Your mailbox post?
    The Potato Chip Rack in the Kwik-E-Mart?





    You expect them to continue to trade fire while hiding behind a barricade.................... to continue to try to kill you.......................

    I expect them to attempt to leave the vicinity, at utmost speed possible.
    I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldstuffer View Post
    Does not have to be "family" either, anyone else who is nearby.

    That opens up the whole dead-horse-beating-contest as to the perceived WISDOM of shooting someone to protect someone else, but, in most states, the law is actually clearly written and not arguable.

    Actually, that gets MUCH more tenuous and depends on your state laws etc.
    So, like always, please know and understand your laws
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigshr View Post
    How about the suggestion that you use a cheap firearm, that way when it's taken for evidence it doesn't hurt so much ? I also recall Massad Ayoob-an LEO-emphasizing that the only thing you say to the police is "There's been a shooting !" and you will say nothing else until you have spoken to counsel .
    I also believe that Mas said, it's important to get your story out FIRST, so the police are looking for evidence to support you (but flub this, they're looking for evidence to disprove you)
    I.E. I shot in self defense, and a short simple factual summery of what happened. Then say, you're shaken, and would be happy to continue the conversation at a later date with legal counsel.
    Live, learn and be happy.
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    Sir when someone’s shooting at you as ive have had happen, experienced twic quickly..
    ...cover is cover first to first behind..?
    car, store shelves anything that puts hard targets in between you and shooting?

    You been shot at right? Then you should already know choices limited ..you do your best!
    "Christ’s Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfariswheel View Post
    Crazy Uncle Joe recommended just stepping out on your patio and firing a blast from your shotgun up in the air to scare off intruders.

    Just the other day he recommended shooting people in the legs instead of "shooting to kill", whatever THAT is.

    Basic Rule...... if it's critical enough to fire a gun, it makes no difference if the subject is killed or wounded.
    If it's not THAT serious.... don't fire at all.
    As I remember he didn't say ,"in the air" he just said shoot it out the back door . I guess he could get away with that !

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    Quote Originally Posted by DK PHILLIPS View Post
    Sir when someone’s shooting at you as ive have had happen, experienced twic quickly..
    ...cover is cover first to first behind..?
    car, store shelves anything that puts hard targets in between you and shooting?

    You been shot at right? Then you should already know choices limited ..you do your best!
    So, they shot at you out in the open, then immediately took cover to continue sniping at you from behind cover............... Have I got that right?
    I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkie View Post
    As I remember he didn't say ,"in the air" he just said shoot it out the back door . I guess he could get away with that !

    'I said "Jill, if there's ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony here - walk out, put that double barrel shot gun and fire two blasts outside the house - I promise you whoever is coming in..." Feb. 2013.
    I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.

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