type I in 7.7
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Thread: type I in 7.7

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Nat mountain, AL
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    Default type I in 7.7

    Good morning,
    My stepdaughter asked me to help her find some 7.7 ammo for the rifle her grandfather (a marine) broght home at the end of WW2. I asked her to snd me some pictures of the rifle, and was surprised to see a type I carcano. I thought that al of them were made in 6.5.
    I did find a brief reference online about 300 being converted to 7.7 for trials, does anyone here know more about those? She tells me that she has shot this rifle before with 7.7 ammo, but I don't have any more information on it, and her grandfather has passed on.
    Below are the pictures she sent me.

    y'all have a good day,

    Keith
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 612401700.jpg  

    612401817.jpg  

    IMG_2720.jpg  

    Say you love her 'till she lays down the butcher knife. -Tim Wilson

    "Luck" is what happens when preparation meets opportunity

  2. #2

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    I'd be very skeptical if it was a legitimate 7.7 type I as that would be a very very rare rifle if it only was In trials.

    She wasn't mistaken thinking she just needed to load "Arisaka ammo" and just assumed it was 7.7?

    Sent from my SM-G977U using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Nat mountain, AL
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    1,869

    Default

    I asked about that, she insists she shot it with her grandfather when she was growing up and they used 7.7. Absolutely no idea if it might have been converted stateside, but I might have a chance to look at it in August, we'll be going to visit because one of her daughters is getting married.

    Keith
    Say you love her 'till she lays down the butcher knife. -Tim Wilson

    "Luck" is what happens when preparation meets opportunity

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  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by keithreid View Post
    I asked about that, she insists she shot it with her grandfather when she was growing up and they used 7.7. Absolutely no idea if it might have been converted stateside, but I might have a chance to look at it in August, we'll be going to visit because one of her daughters is getting married.

    Keith
    Steinel ammunition has 7.7 Japanese that they load. Order a box. See if it chambers.

    Sent from my SM-G977U using Tapatalk

  6. #5

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    Will the carcano action old 7.7 load? I know it was deemed unsafe with 8mm and I thought 7.7 was in the same ball park.

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  7. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    869

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    Ask for a muzzle shot preferably with a ruler. Almost certainly it's a 6.5

    Don

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by russo_jap View Post
    Will the carcano action old 7.7 load? I know it was deemed unsafe with 8mm and I thought 7.7 was in the same ball park.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    The Carcano is a large ring action made from good steel , it is plenty strong enough . I have no idea who deemed it unsafe for 8x57mm , or why they would , or if they even know what they are talking about . Also the factory loadings of 7.7mm are loaded lighter than the 8mm military 154 or 198 loads . I have built many custom rifles with Carcano actions . Back to the rifle in question , it looks to have the original barrel on it . So it is 6.5mm unless someone bored it out and re-rifled it . Also even a one eyed person should be able to look and tell a .264 hole from a .312 one .

  9. #8
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    226

    Default

    Send pics of the rifle and markings. These guys will steer you in the right direction

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    661

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    Measure the bore at the muzzle , big difference between 6.5 and 7.7 . See if a common 30 cal . bullet , 30/30 , 308, 30/06 will drop into the Muzzle . If it don't I think you have a 6.5 .

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by htshot View Post
    Measure the bore at the muzzle , big difference between 6.5 and 7.7 . See if a common 30 cal . bullet , 30/30 , 308, 30/06 will drop into the Muzzle . If it don't I think you have a 6.5 .
    ???? A 30 cal bullet will not " drop " into the muzzle of a 7.7mm , nor will it drop into a 6.5mm . How will that help ?

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    155

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    It would help because a 3030 bullet wont fit in the 6.5 hole..thus making it a 6.5..if it drops into the hole its a 7.7..Easy redneck stuff.

  13. #12

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    A 30 cal bullet will NOT drop into the 7.7mm barrel . As I said , it will not drop into either barrel .

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by mag View Post
    A 30 cal bullet will NOT drop into the 7.7mm barrel . As I said , it will not drop into either barrel .
    I'm not sure what you are talking about. A 30 cal bullet with sit into the muzzle of a 7. 7 pretty deep. 30 cal is 308 7.7 is between 310 and 312 diameter and 6.5 is around 256 diameter. Using a 30 cal bullet as suggested makes the difference pretty obvious.

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  15. #14

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    It is not going to DROP into the barrel . Also it will hit the .303 lands , not the .312+ grooves .

  16. #15

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    Some actual facts . First you list the land dia for the 6.5mm , but the groove dia for the 7.7mm . I just took a standard .308 165 grain sp bullet and put it in the muzzle of a T-38 , it protruded .690 . When the same bullet was put into the 7.7mm it protruded .570 . .120 will really show up to the naked eye of someone how can not tell 6.5mm from 7.7mm .

  17. #16

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    Some actual facts I gave bullet diameters. You do not load 7.7 with 308 bullets. I thank everyone else understands and for some reason you have to be right or prove you know more. You do what you want but for the average person taking a 30 cal bullet or round and placing it in the muzzle will tell you if its 6.5 (25 cal) or 7.7 (32 cal).

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  18. #17

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    I just told you it would not , and why . You also do not understand bullet diameters . The 6.5mm is NOT a .256 bullet , it is NOT a 25 cal , it is 26 cal . The 7.7mm is NOT a 32 cal , it is 31 cal . It is not knowing more , more than knowing what is correct . Everything you said is incorrect and needs to be corrected .

  19. #18

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    Ok I'm done your right. I rounded differently but that makes me wrong. There you win.

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  20. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
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    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by russo_jap View Post
    Some actual facts I gave bullet diameters. You do not load 7.7 with 308 bullets. I thank everyone else understands and for some reason you have to be right or prove you know more. You do what you want but for the average person taking a 30 cal bullet or round and placing it in the muzzle will tell you if its 6.5 (25 cal) or 7.7 (32 cal).

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    Russo is right, you can easily use this trick to tell which caliber the rifle is. I stuck a 30-06 round in the muzzle of my Type I in 6.5 and my Type 99 in 7.7. Very easy to tell the difference in caliber this way. I’m attaching pictures to prove it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails FE14748B-3E52-4CC2-A274-780CB2F9F0E8_1592427507728.jpg  

    6A79BEAA-C5B2-47DD-AF68-BF95F42C4941_1592427535008.jpg  


  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by russo_jap View Post
    Ok I'm done your right. I rounded differently but that makes me wrong. There you win.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    You did not round off , A .256 bullet is what is used in a 25 cal rifle . A .264 bullet is used in a 6.5mm rifle . A 8mm is a 32 cal and uses a .323 bullet and has a .311 land . If you take a .308 bullet it will drop down a 8mm barrel . That is just incorrect info .

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneB View Post
    Russo is right, you can easily use this trick to tell which caliber the rifle is. I stuck a 30-06 round in the muzzle of my Type I in 6.5 and my Type 99 in 7.7. Very easy to tell the difference in caliber this way. I’m attaching pictures to prove it.
    That would depend on just what .308 bullet you used , and if you had two rifles side by side . And it still DID NOT drop down the bore .

  23. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    543

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    All I know is this: a 6.5 bullet WILL drop down the bore of a 7.7 barrel.

  24. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
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    Quote Originally Posted by mag View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneB View Post
    Russo is right, you can easily use this trick to tell which caliber the rifle is. I stuck a 30-06 round in the muzzle of my Type I in 6.5 and my Type 99 in 7.7. Very easy to tell the difference in caliber this way. I’m attaching pictures to prove it.
    That would depend on just what .308 bullet you used , and if you had two rifles side by side . And it still DID NOT drop down the bore .
    I had the rifles side by side, look at the pictures. The 30-06 round that I stated I used doesn’t fit into my 6.5 Jap Type I, the Type 99 in 7.7 takes almost all of the bullet. So depending on how far it protrudes you can pretty much see which caliber it is out of the two. As it was said, this is not a sure fire way to test the caliber, but gives a good idea between the two being discussed. If you can’t tell from the pictures what we are talking about then I don’t know how to explain it better.

  25. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    661

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    Why do you make things so complicated ? I have a trick I've used before , but not recommended, put a shell in it in it, if it chambers up ,your close . Tie a long string to the trigger, get behind a tree. pull string . if gun blows up , wrong caliber. Are you sure you have a type I ?

  26. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    Quote Originally Posted by htshot View Post
    Why do you make things so complicated ? I have a trick I've used before , but not recommended, put a shell in it in it, if it chambers up ,your close . Tie a long string to the trigger, get behind a tree. pull string . if gun blows up , wrong caliber. Are you sure you have a type I ?
    Mabey it's a 38 Carcano in 7.35 cal.

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