1944 M44 Izhevsk
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Thread: 1944 M44 Izhevsk

  1. #1
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    Default 1944 M44 Izhevsk

    Bought this on Memorial Day weekend on funbroker. Either I was the only one dumb enough to bid or no one was watching. Not the best condition but still a factory matching 1944 M44. They seem tough to find, for me at least. This one only as the small import marks at the muzzle.

    I think the sling cut outs are interesting in the rear. They are worn from a sling it looks like. Wish the roundel and stock acceptance was strong but what are you going to do. Not a sniper so we'll see if it stays.


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  2. #2
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    Nice, honest example. Congrats!
    Purists of the world, unite!

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
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  3. #3
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    Better than many "beauties", !
    KH

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  5. #4
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    I'd say it's a keeper.

    Nice find, congrats!






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    For folks who still need to be convinced that the Soviets used the same stamping dies to number all the matching parts, check out the flaw in the top of the inside ring in the number 0. It is consistent across all four stamped serial numbers.

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    You have a nice one there. Congrats.

  8. #7
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    Now that is an interesting tidbit, sir...i'm just now digging thru some Mosins and marveling at my luck in spite of ignorance.
    Q: someone said that the Model 91 bolt was somehow 'different' that that found in a M91/30 ...can this be true?

  9. #8
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    How did this one miss the refurbishment process and end up with all fonts in all 4 serials exactly the same? Bolt doesn't look ground, either. Can this stock be verified to be original? (seems likely).
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin08 View Post
    For folks who still need to be convinced that the Soviets used the same stamping dies to number all the matching parts, check out the flaw in the top of the inside ring in the number 0. It is consistent across all four stamped serial numbers.
    Good eyes there Martin, most people wouldn't have noticed

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMyer View Post
    How did this one miss the refurbishment process and end up with all fonts in all 4 serials exactly the same? Bolt doesn't look ground, either. Can this stock be verified to be original? (seems likely).
    Because this is how Izhevsk numbered rifles and carbines from the factory, the same set of stamps was used on all parts. This carbine is factory original and never refurbished.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by msniper19 View Post
    Because this is how Izhevsk numbered rifles and carbines from the factory, the same set of stamps was used on all parts. This carbine is factory original and never refurbished.
    Geez..... that was my point. So again, how did it miss the refurbishment process? That is the topic I was trying to discuss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMyer View Post
    Geez..... that was my point. So again, how did it miss the refurbishment process? That is the topic I was trying to discuss.
    Could it have ended up in another country, say Germany, at the end of the war and it never went back to Russia so didn't go through the refurb programme?.

    There must have been thousands of rifles etc that got squirreled away at the end of the war by people, only for them to emerge years later.I bet that back in the day it was possible to pick up all sorts of battlefields once the fighting had moved on and no doubt people did.I bet it would be amazing what's hidden in barns, attics and cellars across Western and Eastern Europe to this day.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMyer View Post
    How did this one miss the refurbishment process and end up with all fonts in all 4 serials exactly the same? Bolt doesn't look ground, either. Can this stock be verified to be original? (seems likely).

    I think a more puzzling question is why did so few 1944 M44s escape refurbishment. While not exactly common, non refurb 91/30s can be found, especially 1943s, but 1944s are not unheard of. This despite the fact that there were relatively few 1944 91/30s made, compared with large quantities of 1944 M44s.






  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMyer View Post
    Geez..... that was my point. So again, how did it miss the refurbishment process? That is the topic I was trying to discuss.
    I am sorry, your question seemed rather straight forward. You asked why all four parts had the same stamps. I was simply answering that.

    I am not sure why this didn't get refurbished post war. Anyone's guess is as good and we will never know for sure. Does anybody know the history of this importer and where they got rifles from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by msniper19 View Post
    I am sorry, your question seemed rather straight forward. You asked why all four parts had the same stamps. I was simply answering that.

    I am not sure why this didn't get refurbished post war. Anyone's guess is as good and we will never know for sure. Does anybody know the history of this importer and where they got rifles from?
    It's a Cole's import (which is a good thing as that's why it's barely import marked). I've heard that then owner Gary Cole got in a bit of hot water with the ATF at one point due to the sparseness of his import marks.

    The company had a history of misfortune, including a home invasion resulting in Gary Cole being shot and the intruder being shot dead. Gary passed away in 2015 after a long illness. I don't really know about their sourcing, but they definitely brought in a lot of nice stuff (and still had some, sadly, at the time of the fire). They had a good number of factory matching (including bayonet) 91/30s at one point.






  17. #16
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    Very nice honest rifle!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 81turbota View Post
    Very nice honest rifle!
    Agreed!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Relic View Post
    It's a Cole's import (which is a good thing as that's why it's barely import marked). I've heard that then owner Gary Cole got in a bit of hot water with the ATF at one point due to the sparseness of his import marks.

    The company had a history of misfortune, including a home invasion resulting in Gary Cole being shot and the intruder being shot dead. Gary passed away in 2015 after a long illness. I don't really know about their sourcing, but they definitely brought in a lot of nice stuff (and still had some, sadly, at the time of the fire). They had a good number of factory matching (including bayonet) 91/30s at one point.
    Good to know. I knew it was a Cole's import, just didn't know anything about Cole's. I'd be curious to know where they got most of their firearms.

    Thanks!

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by msniper19 View Post
    I am sorry, your question seemed rather straight forward. You asked why all four parts had the same stamps. I was simply answering that.

    I am not sure why this didn't get refurbished post war. Anyone's guess is as good and we will never know for sure. Does anybody know the history of this importer and where they got rifles from?

    Sorry for the confusion. I was just re-stating the evidence it was factory original. I have seen a lot of light refurbs of 1947 and 1948 M44s with identical stamps on all but the butt plate and an obviously refurb stock. Now I'm definitely not a big expert collector, but I have been around for quite a while. This is the first M44 I have personally seen photos of (on this forum), where the rifle appears to be truly factory original based on stamps and the unground bolt. I am interested in hearing comments about the factory original stock on this vs refurbs.
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  21. #20
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    been there done that look-- ya just gotta love that!!! take good care of her. she has been to hell & back, and needs a good loving home.!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMyer View Post
    Sorry for the confusion. I was just re-stating the evidence it was factory original. I have seen a lot of light refurbs of 1947 and 1948 M44s with identical stamps on all but the butt plate and an obviously refurb stock. Now I'm definitely not a big expert collector, but I have been around for quite a while. This is the first M44 I have personally seen photos of (on this forum), where the rifle appears to be truly factory original based on stamps and the unground bolt. I am interested in hearing comments about the factory original stock on this vs refurbs.
    1945 and later factory matching M44s, while not exactly common, are much easier to find than factory matching 1944s for some reason. IIRC, I currently have 3 1945s, 2 1946s, 2 1947s and 2 1948s. Yet I have never seen a single factory matching 1944 in person.






  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMyer View Post
    Sorry for the confusion. I was just re-stating the evidence it was factory original. I have seen a lot of light refurbs of 1947 and 1948 M44s with identical stamps on all but the butt plate and an obviously refurb stock. Now I'm definitely not a big expert collector, but I have been around for quite a while. This is the first M44 I have personally seen photos of (on this forum), where the rifle appears to be truly factory original based on stamps and the unground bolt. I am interested in hearing comments about the factory original stock on this vs refurbs.
    Yes there is a way to tell. This stock is war time. Since the acceptance stamp can't be seen (I can still barely make out the roundel), we have to look at the other features of the stock. It is war time because it lacks a liner in the rear sling cut out. And the rear barrel band does not have a relief cut behind it in the stock. Hope this helps.

  24. #23
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    Very nice indeed; you do see quite a few 1945 M44s that are matching but few 44s. That was a good one to pick up and Coles import marks were outstanding.

    PA
    Interested in buying a factory original Izhevsk PU sniper with original wartime matched scope. Long shot but a guy can dream!

  25. #24
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    I recall a few groups of non refurbished Mosin Nagant rifles being imported.

    Can't recall with retailer or importer.

    Seems that refurb was done in several different configurations., electro pen serial markings, almost universal counterbore on M38's.
    Perhaps depending on the location, factory/arsenal or date and some were simply never refurbished.
    Last edited by AKBLUE; 07-03-2020 at 08:17 AM.

  26. #25
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    I purchased a 1944 M44 from another member here a few month ago that has all matching numbers, but was refurbed. It has a post war stock in beautiful shape, and the bore is counter-bored about an inch. Otherwise it is in amazing shape. I guess the metal was all ok, other than some wear at the muzzle and the wood must have been a little beat up or something.

    Edit: Here are the pics of it, I don't have any pics of it myself, but these are from the original post.

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  27. #26
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    Actually, now that I think of it, should't the cyrillic prefix also be stamped on all the parts? Maybe this was a complete refurb with spare parts that were numbered during the refurb. No matter, I still think it is nice to have a soviet 44 is such nice condition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashcrash View Post
    Actually, now that I think of it, should't the cyrillic prefix also be stamped on all the parts? Maybe this was a complete refurb with spare parts that were numbered during the refurb. No matter, I still think it is nice to have a soviet 44 is such nice condition.
    Yes, all the parts should have the letter prefix. So they have all been replaced post war. Your rifle is a good example of what post war stocks look like also.

  29. #28
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    what fire....?

  30. #29
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    Some refurbs had the complete Cyrillic prefixes., others were just the numerics., still others electro pen etc. A lot of variation in refurb Mosin Nagant rifles.

    I have a 1944 refurb with the Cyrillic alpha prefix and three digit serial number on all the customary serialized parts.

    Pictures here>>

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/VAWdES6SasAkcUqY6
    Last edited by AKBLUE; 07-01-2020 at 07:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomaustin View Post
    what fire....?
    Cole's burned to the ground in 2018, with everything inside being a total loss. A shame, as they apparently still had quite a bit of good stuff, including a lot of ex-PU 91/30s and RC Mausers. I bought a factory matching 1943 91/30 from them not long before the fire.






  32. #31
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    Quick correction, I said above that I'd never seen a factory matchng 1944 M44 in person. Bit of a senior moment there: I actually own one factory matching 1944 M44, but it's a Tula.






  33. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by msniper19 View Post
    Yes there is a way to tell. This stock is war time. Since the acceptance stamp can't be seen (I can still barely make out the roundel), we have to look at the other features of the stock. It is war time because it lacks a liner in the rear sling cut out. And the rear barrel band does not have a relief cut behind it in the stock. Hope this helps.

    Yes, that is the info I was looking for. thanks. What was the break point for the liners?
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  34. #33
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    Fine example, easy on the eye...neat observation Martin08, very nice acquisition. Thanks for posting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMyer View Post
    Yes, that is the info I was looking for. thanks. What was the break point for the liners?
    On Izhevsk M44s, the pressed liners began sometime late in '45.






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