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  1. #1
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    Default Who to believe?

    When my favorite news outlet gets caught manipulating digital images of gun bearing protesters in Seattle, and then deletes them when caught?

    Fox News published digitally altered and misleading photos on stories about Seattle's Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ) in what photojournalism experts called a clear violation of ethical standards for news organizations.

    As part of a package of stories Friday about the zone, where demonstrators have taken over several city blocks on Capitol Hill after Seattle police abandoned the East Precinct, Fox's website for much of the day featured a photo of a man standing with a military-style rifle in front of what appeared to be a smashed retail storefront.

    The image was actually a mashup of photos from different days, taken by different photographers -- it was done by splicing a Getty Images photo of an armed man, who had been at the protest zone June 10, with other images from May 30 of smashed windows in downtown Seattle. Another altered image combined the gunman photo with yet another image, making it appear as though he was standing in front of a sign declaring "You are now entering Free Cap Hill."

    Fox's site had no disclaimers revealing the photos had been manipulated. The network removed the images after inquiries from The Seattle Times.

  2. #2
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    chasdev
    Who to believe?
    Not you.



    I thought those photos in the original were obviously photo shopped from the original picture of the Armed guards. In fact they were so obviously montages that one would have to be pretty obtuse not to understand it was a montage.

    The longer this goes on the more incompetent and unable to govern the Democrats in Washington State show themselves. What a clown-fest.

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    Never, ever, put your trust in an insane clown or regular looking folks who dress up as their inner insane clown or the worst, the insane clowns that portray themselves as regular looking folks.
    Beware! Seriously.

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    People get caught up in the Emotional moments...
    “THEN GET CAUGHT!”
    same for protesters dressing the part of a THEME of a riot,!

    protesters interviewed, Key words missing from statements or miscue, high lighted Wrongly in interviews, looping!

    later we say to ourselves..hold my beer again what was I thinking?
    Last edited by DK PHILLIPS; 06-13-2020 at 07:00 PM.
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    Personally I don't believe a thing the press says or the government and unless I know you well I won't believe you either guess life has taught me not to trust people

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    Virginia Citizens Defense League, thats who I believe.

    Everyone else, can go pound some serious sand...
    Looking for USS Casimir Pulaski SSBN 633 items.

    Roll Tide Roll!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidsog View Post
    Not you.



    I thought those photos in the original were obviously photo shopped from the original picture of the Armed guards. In fact they were so obviously montages that one would have to be pretty obtuse not to understand it was a montage.

    The longer this goes on the more incompetent and unable to govern the Democrats in Washington State show themselves. What a clown-fest.
    Fox News also ran a picture of a burning scene from May 30 in St. Paul, Minnesota with a story about Seattleís protests. That image has also been removed.

    There was no disclaimer on the now-removed photos indicating that they were edited, or melded together from weeks-old photos.

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    Boogaloo Boi - 32 year old air force sergeant was arrested for shooting two deputies in Santa Cruz CA. Suspect in the shooting of two federal protective officers during a protest weeks ago that was blamed on black protesters and Antifa.
    A libertarian. I kinda fall in the realm of Libertarian/democrat and I know both parties do not approve of and trying to start a civil war. Bad apples everywhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    Boogaloo Boi - 32 year old air force sergeant was arrested for shooting two deputies in Santa Cruz CA. Suspect in the shooting of two federal protective officers during a protest weeks ago that was blamed on black protesters and Antifa.
    A libertarian. I kinda fall in the realm of Libertarian/democrat and I know both parties do not approve of and trying to start a civil war. Bad apples everywhere.

    Apparently HE did claim to be in ANTIFA or at least answered their call to kill police. He was not exactly hiding and let it be known his plans.

    It appears Carrillo last posted at 1:22 p.m. Saturday, minutes before his alleged attack on the deputies. That post shared an anti-fascism image.
    https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/ar...y-15325771.php

    Since there is no ANTIFA card carrying membership and all you have to do to join is claim membership...factually he is ANTIFA. Never saw a single Al-Qaeda ID card or membership on any of my tours including capturing one of the planners of September 11th. That certainly meant nothing as to their actions or belonging to a terrorist organization, bomb making, and killing of innocents in the name of their terrorist organization just like this guy.

    If he says he was ANTIFA then he was ANTIFA. That is the only membership requirement.

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    That article is a little hard for me to access on my phone. I see he made one quote about “Who needs ANTIFA to start riots when the police do it for you” (paraphrasing - correct me if I missed his point). I didn’t see his quotes claiming ANTIFA membership, Maybe because that website is so messed up.

    We’ll have to compare notes on Afghanistan someday davidsog. I spent 2 1/2 years traveling throughout RC-E as a civilian advisor to the Army. 2008 - 2011. Bet we’ve seen some FOBs together.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    Boogaloo Boi - 32 year old air force sergeant was arrested for shooting two deputies in Santa Cruz CA. Suspect in the shooting of two federal protective officers during a protest weeks ago that was blamed on black protesters Antifa.
    A libertarian. I kinda fall in the realm of Libertarian/democrat and I know both parties do not approve of and trying to start a civil war. Bad apples everywhere.
    Can you please post source?
    I see it's very popular to claim that any bad act which makes the news lately and is prima facia left leaning, being called false flag and blamed on others
    But... either no proof is offered, or the facts fail to support the supposition
    Last edited by Mosinitis; 06-13-2020 at 04:31 PM. Reason: Point taken
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostinspace View Post
    Personally I don't believe a thing the press says or the government and unless I know you well I won't believe you either guess life has taught me not to trust people

    I am the grass. Let me work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    When my favorite news outlet gets caught manipulating digital images of gun bearing protesters in Seattle, and then deletes them when caught?

    Fox News published digitally altered and misleading photos on stories about Seattle's Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ) in what photojournalism experts called a clear violation of ethical standards for news organizations.

    As part of a package of stories Friday about the zone, where demonstrators have taken over several city blocks on Capitol Hill after Seattle police abandoned the East Precinct, Fox's website for much of the day featured a photo of a man standing with a military-style rifle in front of what appeared to be a smashed retail storefront.

    The image was actually a mashup of photos from different days, taken by different photographers -- it was done by splicing a Getty Images photo of an armed man, who had been at the protest zone June 10, with other images from May 30 of smashed windows in downtown Seattle. Another altered image combined the gunman photo with yet another image, making it appear as though he was standing in front of a sign declaring "You are now entering Free Cap Hill."

    Fox's site had no disclaimers revealing the photos had been manipulated. The network removed the images after inquiries from The Seattle Times.
    Have the ANTIFA idiots taken over a 5 or 6 block area of Seattle, yes or no ?? Are any of them armed, yes or no?? Did they post signs, "No Police Allowed" ,[ or something like that,], Yes or No ?? Did they force evacuation of the Police station, Yes or no?? Is this an ILLEGAL ACT , Yes or No?? Stop nitpicking as if news errors,[you say], make a difference in what's going on !! The dumb bozo Mayor says "It's like a Block Party" , whereas a bunch of terrorists have confiscated part of HER CITY and threaten to stay until they get their demands which looks like Money for one . These are the facts of what's going on. Whether Fox or anyone else put something on you disagree with or claim to be false is totally irrelevant . This is anarchy and it needs to be stopped now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GUNBB View Post
    Have the ANTIFA idiots taken over a 5 or 6 block area of Seattle, yes or no ?? Are any of them armed, yes or no?? Did they post signs, "No Police Allowed" ,[ or something like that,], Yes or No ?? Did they force evacuation of the Police station, Yes or no?? Is this an ILLEGAL ACT , Yes or No?? Stop nitpicking as if news errors,[you say], make a difference in what's going on !! The dumb bozo Mayor says "It's like a Block Party" , whereas a bunch of terrorists have confiscated part of HER CITY and threaten to stay until they get their demands which looks like Money for one . These are the facts of what's going on. Whether Fox or anyone else put something on you disagree with or claim to be false is totally irrelevant . This is anarchy and it needs to be stopped now.
    There seems to be no ANTIFA or terrorist presence. There are some news outlets broadcasting live from the area right now so you can see for yourself

    It seems like a hippie commune. Free food, musicians, local Indian tribes performing. Nobody ran the cops out; against the police chief’s wishes the mayor had them withdraw to defuse the situation. The end game will be interesting.
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  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidsog View Post
    Not you.



    I thought those photos in the original were obviously photo shopped from the original picture of the Armed guards. In fact they were so obviously montages that one would have to be pretty obtuse not to understand it was a montage.

    The longer this goes on the more incompetent and unable to govern the Democrats in Washington State show themselves. What a clown-fest.
    1+ infinity

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Bender View Post
    There seems to be no ANTIFA or terrorist presence. There are some news outlets broadcasting live from the area right now so you can see for yourself

    It seems like a hippie commune. Free food, musicians, local Indian tribes performing. Nobody ran the cops out; against the police chief’s wishes the mayor had them withdraw to defuse the situation. The end game will be interesting.
    Earlier a news station reporter said he saw armed guys at night , patrolling the perimeter . So are you in favor of this type of behavior?? That is the point here. Is this something that should be replicated across the country, with gangs of "Protestors" taking over sections of cities , for their own amusement and profit?? What can you possibly think, the reaction will be from the local businesses?? In Chicago, I read Walmart and Target are rethinking any ideas of re-occupying their looted stores. This is "Theft of Public Funds" or such. The public pays taxes for the use of this land and now it has been taken over and use is restricted. It's that simple . Stop trying to rationalize this . It's criminal activity , plain and simple.

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    It's not REAL full on anarchy yet. They really haven't the experience of what will happen should the line be all the way crossed. Right now it's the romantic version that precedes the bloodstained violence that will most certainly occur when the puryaors of this round up the ante to push their agenda closer to the prom in November. They don't even have to dream up anything new, the playbook has been written by the ones who have torn the guts out of governments time and again.... Sometimes, the will of the people and common sense prevails and let the chips fall where they may. A wailing and gnashing of rat like teeth will follow and the informers will do the bidding of their handlers to save whatever it is that they stand to lose, by snitching each other out. The only folks that will make hay will be the ones who will write the history of the aftermath of this looming possibility of disaster. Some embrace it most don't, but all WILL suffer to varying degrees. The biggest losers will be the ones who always are the biggest losers, the ones who stand to lose everything and expect the most, the ones who already precieve themselves as oppressed and slighted and with little or no hope. "Let them eat cake" was reportedly a quote by one person who distrusted the facts of history. Friends don't let friends eat old moldy cake. Just saying.............please don't go there!

    Don't make us have to say, " Look at what you made us do!!" What a waste of time and treasure.
    I'm done now.

  20. #19
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    The end of this mess shouldn't be too bad! ....... After all, their lists of demands are very simple and straight forward. There shouldn't be any problem accommodating all of their requests. After all, they aren't asking for much.

    It's an interesting read that is sure to elicit lots of laughter. Property values in Seattle shouldn't drop too much as this drags on for months. After all, per the Mayor this is "the summer of love!" LMAO!!!

    Enjoy the read!

    THE DEMANDS OF THE COLLECTIVE BLACK VOICES AT FREE CAPITOL HILL TO THE GOVERNMENT OF SEATTLE, WASHINGTON

    June 9th, 2020


    In credit to the people who freed Capitol Hill, this list of demands is neither brief nor simplistic. This is no simple request to end police brutality. We demand that the City Council and the Mayor, whoever that may be, implement these policy changes for the cultural and historic advancement of the City of Seattle, and to ease the struggles of its people. This document is to represent the black voices who spoke in victory at the top of 12th & Pine after 9 days of peaceful protest while under constant nightly attack from the Seattle Police Department. These are words from that night, June 8th, 2020.


    “Welcome to Free Capitol Hill” — Posted 06/08/2020For ease of consideration, we’ve broken these demands into four categories: The Justice System, Health and Human Services, Economics, and Education.
    Given the historical moment, we’ll begin with our demands pertaining to the Justice System.


    1. The Seattle Police Department and attached court system are beyond reform. We do not request reform, we demand abolition. We demand that the Seattle Council and the Mayor defund and abolish the Seattle Police Department and the attached Criminal Justice Apparatus. This means 100% of funding, including existing pensions for Seattle Police. At an equal level of priority we also demand that the city disallow the operations of ICE in the city of Seattle.
    2. In the transitionary period between now and the dismantlement of the Seattle Police Department, we demand that the use of armed force be banned entirely. No guns, no batons, no riot shields, no chemical weapons, especially against those exercising their First Amendment right as Americans to protest.
    3. We demand an end to the school-to-prison pipeline and the abolition of youth jails. Get kids out of prison, get cops out of schools. We also demand that the new youth prison being built in Seattle currently be repurposed.
    4. We demand that not the City government, nor the State government, but that the Federal government launch a full-scale investigation into past and current cases of police brutality in Seattle and Washington, as well as the re-opening of all closed cases reported to the Office of Police Accountability. In particular, we demand that cases particular to Seattle and Washington be reopened where no justice has been served, namely the cases of Iosia Faletogo, Damarius Butts, Isaiah Obet, Tommy Le, Shaun Fuhr, and Charleena Lyles.
    5. We demand reparations for victims of police brutality, in a form to be determined.
    6. We demand that the City of Seattle make the names of officers involved in police brutality a matter of public record. Anonymity should not even be a privilege in public service.
    7. We demand a retrial of all People of Color currently serving prison sentences for violent crime, by a jury of their peers in their community.
    8. We demand decriminalization of the acts of protest, and amnesty for protestors generally, but specifically those involved in what has been termed “The George Floyd Rebellion” against the terrorist cell that previously occupied this area known as the Seattle Police Department. This includes the immediate release of all protestors currently being held in prison after the arrests made at 11th and Pine on Sunday night and early Saturday morning June 7th and 8th, and any other protesters arrested in the past two weeks of the uprising, the name Evan Hreha in particular comes to mind who filmed Seattle police macing a young girl and is now in jail.
    9. We demand that the City of Seattle and the State Government release any prisoner currently serving time for a marijuana-related offense and expunge the related conviction.
    10. We demand the City of Seattle and State Government release any prisoner currently serving time just for resisting arrest if there are no other related charges, and that those convictions should also be expunged.
    11. We demand that prisoners currently serving time be given the full and unrestricted right to vote, and for Washington State to pass legislation specifically breaking from Federal law that prevents felons from being able to vote.
    12. We demand an end to prosecutorial immunity for police officers in the time between now and the dissolution of the SPD and extant justice system.
    13. We demand the abolition of imprisonment, generally speaking, but especially the abolition of both youth prisons and privately-owned, for-profit prisons.
    14. We demand in replacement of the current criminal justice system the creation of restorative/transformative accountability programs as a replacement for imprisonment.
    15. We demand autonomy be given to the people to create localized anti-crime systems.
    16. We demand that the Seattle Police Department, between now and the time of its abolition in the near future, empty its “lost and found” and return property owned by denizens of the city.
    17. We demand justice for those who have been sexually harassed or abused by the Seattle Police Department or prison guards in the state of Washington.
    18. We demand that between now and the abolition of the SPD that each and every SPD officer turn on their body cameras, and that the body camera video of all Seattle police should be a matter of easily accessible public record.
    19. We demand that the funding previously used for Seattle Police be redirected into: A) Socialized Health and Medicine for the City of Seattle. B) Free public housing, because housing is a right, not a privilege. C) Public education, to decrease the average class size in city schools and increase teacher salary. D) Naturalization services for immigrants to the United States living here undocumented. (We demand they be called “undocumented” because no person is illegal.) E) General community development. Parks, etc.

    We also have economic demands that must be addressed.


    1. We demand the de-gentrification of Seattle, starting with rent control.
    2. We demand the restoration of city funding for arts and culture to re-establish the once-rich local cultural identity of Seattle.
    3. We demand free college for the people of the state of Washington, due to the overwhelming effect that education has on economic success, and the correlated overwhelming impact of poverty on people of color, as a form of reparations for the treatment of Black people in this state and country.
    4. We demand that between now and the abolition of the SPD that Seattle Police be prohibited from performing “homeless sweeps” that displace and disturb our homeless neighbors, and on equal footing we demand an end to all evictions.
    5. We demand a decentralized election process to give the citizens of Seattle a greater ability to select candidates for public office such that we are not forced to choose at the poll between equally undesirable options. There are multiple systems and policies in place which make it impractical at best for working-class people to run for public office, all of which must go, starting with any fees associated with applying to run for public office.

    Related to economic demands, we also have demands pertaining to what we would formally call “Health and Human Services.”


    1. We demand the hospitals and care facilities of Seattle employ black doctors and nurses specifically to help care for black patients.
    2. We demand the people of Seattle seek out and proudly support Black-owned businesses. Your money is our power and sustainability.
    3. We demand that the city create an entirely separate system staffed by mental health experts to respond to 911 calls pertaining to mental health crises, and insist that all involved in such a program be put through thorough, rigorous training in conflict de-escalation.

    Finally, let us now address our demands regarding the education system in the City of Seattle and State of Washington.


    1. We demand that the history of Black and Native Americans be given a significantly greater focus in the Washington State education curriculum.
    2. We demand that thorough anti-bias training become a legal requirement for all jobs in the education system, as well as in the medical profession and in mass media.
    3. We demand the City of Seattle and State of Washington remove any and all monuments dedicated to historical figures of the Confederacy, whose treasonous attempts to build an America with slavery as a permanent fixture were an affront to the human race.

    Transcribed by @irie_kenya and @AustinCHowe. Special thanks to Magik for starting and facilitating the discussion to create this list, to Omari Salisbury for the idea to break the list into categories, and as well a thanks to Kshama Sawant for being the only Seattle official to discuss with the people on Free Capitol Hill the night that it was liberated.
    Although we have liberated Free Capitol Hill in the name of the people of Seattle, we must not forget that we stand on land already once stolen from the Duwamish People, the first people of Seattle, and whose brother, John T. Williams of the Nuu-chah-nulth tribe up north was murdered by the Seattle Police Department 10 years ago.
    Black Lives Matter — All day, Every day.

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    The laughable list of demands were drawn up by some group of radicals but the problem is they aren’t in charge, nobody is. There are no real leaders to negotiate with.

    As far as rumors of armed gangs at night, which I haven’t seen documented, would you guess what end of the political spectrum they would be from? They say every political stripe is on site.
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    They might as well demand they move the Space Needle a couple feet north.

    It’s all peaceful so far with the locals calling it a big party. That’s starting to poi’s off the people who think this should be about BLM. There are definitely different agendas at play. We’ll see ...,
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    Upon reading Part 1, Item 4 of this manifesto, I just shook myself awake and stretched my eyes at the statement requesting the Federal Government be the only ones entrusted to get to the bottom of all the alleged injustices/injuries/malfeasance being perpetrated on a chosen few. Then all the rest of anybody with a bitch about anything should have their voices heard and demands immediately met.
    Good Luck Chuck!!

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    Relative to the original post:

    Big Whoop!

    The only perfect person I know anything about died about 2000 years ago, or so I am told.

    It's not like CNN, MSNBS (I know it is supposed to be 'BC' on the end, but I call 'em as I see 'em) always get things 100.000% right, either.

    Montages are montages. If you CAN'T figure out what THOSE are, you should check out the cut-and-paste stuff that third graders do in their art classes.

    The half hour Broadcast Network News organs of the Dumb-O-Crud party (ABC CBS NBC News) actually have the time to script their presentations and have most of the day to 'get things right'. It is a shame that they don't always do so either.

    Production crews backing up news reports and on the 24 hour news networks are always 'on the air' are a WHOLE LOT more harried than most (production is CONTINUOUS with their announcers quite often 'winging it' on the air. They are usually under pressure to get something the screen behind the 'talking head' that has some kind of relationship to what the head is talking about. Of the several thousand images and clips that they have available to choose from every day, sometimes they get it wrong. I am sure, on occasion, YOU would in their place, too.
    Last edited by Ronbo6; 06-13-2020 at 11:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Bender View Post
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    Funny how politics alters some folks perceptions.
    For instance, if there's even a rumor of Anti-facists bearings arms, (you know the ones we are allowed to carry via the 2A) panties jump rapidly upwards into certain butt cracks.
    BUT when the Bundy clan and playmates arm themselves to the teeth, including amateur sniper nests on an overlooking bridge, threaten to kill police officers and federal agents, well THAT'S just hunky dory.
    I guess Federal agents and local officers of the law are fair game, but facists who hold torchlight marches chanting "the jews will not replace us" and who kill Antifa protesters with cars are immune.
    Some are more equal than others, depending on how much ammo they have in the bunker?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DisasterDog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by North Bender View Post
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    <img src="https://forums.gunboards.com/images/smilies/laughter.gif" border="0" alt="" title="laugh" class="inlineimg" /><img src="https://forums.gunboards.com/images/smilies/laughter.gif" border="0" alt="" title="laugh" class="inlineimg" /><img src="https://forums.gunboards.com/images/smilies/laughter.gif" border="0" alt="" title="laugh" class="inlineimg" /><img src="https://forums.gunboards.com/images/smilies/laughter.gif" border="0" alt="" title="laugh" class="inlineimg" />
    That is a good one

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    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    Funny how politics alters some folks perceptions.
    For instance, if there's even a rumor of Anti-facists bearings arms, (you know the ones we are allowed to carry via the 2A) panties jump rapidly upwards into certain butt cracks.
    BUT when the Bundy clan and playmates arm themselves to the teeth, including amateur sniper nests on an overlooking bridge, threaten to kill police officers and federal agents, well THAT'S just hunky dory.
    I guess Federal agents and local officers of the law are fair game, but facists who hold torchlight marches chanting "the jews will not replace us" and who kill Antifa protesters with cars are immune.
    Some are more equal than others, depending on how much ammo they have in the bunker?
    You hit the nail on the head....

    All of this recent violence by police against reporters and actually peaceful protesters (Much of it caught on video) and the response of “patriots” to it has made me realize that a good chunk of the people in the 2A community and are on the political right are not “Constitutionalists” as they claim. They are just as bad if not worse than those on the left.

    I remember a few months ago when armed protesters were on state house grounds threatening legislators so they could get haircuts and go to Applebee’s during a pandemic that’s killed tens of thousands of people here. They were all crying about Tyranny and slavery. When real tyranny showed up weeks later... They were on the opposite side.

    “Oh there are curfews, they should be home”

    “They just need to listen to the cops and they’d be fine”

    “They needed to tear gas thousands of people because some were rioting”

    The hypocrisy was a wake up call for me. I’ve grown up in a conservative household and voted Republican for most of my life, but Lots of people on the Far right are just as bad as those on the Radical left if not worse right now. At least the left doesn’t pretend to like Individual freedom, small government, and states rights only when it’s convenient for them.

    I’m not sure about the rest of you, but I’ve seen some scary authoritarian streaks in the Republican Party over the last few months.... I’ve been trying to read more news from various sources in addition to Fox News recent to see multiple sites. Al Jazeera US actually has some really great old school journalism (with quotes from experts and not twitter) so I would recommend them. Washington Post is left leaning but more professional than CNN.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AR475891 View Post
    You hit the nail on the head....

    All of this recent violence by police against reporters and actually peaceful protesters (Much of it caught on video) and the response of “patriots” to it has made me realize that a good chunk of the people in the 2A community and are on the political right are not “Constitutionalists” as they claim. They are just as bad if not worse than those on the left.

    I remember a few months ago when armed protesters were on state house grounds threatening legislators so they could get haircuts and go to Applebee’s during a pandemic that’s killed tens of thousands of people here. They were all crying about Tyranny and slavery. When real tyranny showed up weeks later... They were on the opposite side.

    “Oh there are curfews, they should be home”

    “They just need to listen to the cops and they’d be fine”

    “They needed to tear gas thousands of people because some were rioting”

    The hypocrisy was a wake up call for me. I’ve grown up in a conservative household and voted Republican for most of my life, but Lots of people on the Far right are just as bad as those on the Radical left if not worse right now. At least the left doesn’t pretend to like Individual freedom, small government, and states rights only when it’s convenient for them.

    I’m not sure about the rest of you, but I’ve seen some scary authoritarian streaks in the Republican Party over the last few months.... I’ve been trying to read more news from various sources in addition to Fox News recent to see multiple sites. Al Jazeera US actually has some really great old school journalism (with quotes from experts and not twitter) so I would recommend them. Washington Post is left leaning but more professional than CNN.
    I can't speak for other areas of the country nor for the people that participated because i was not there, but here in Virginia when we had our gathering in Richmond against the legislation that the governor was trying to pass, (3 out of 4) and that was a conservative estimate based on a personal survey of 40 people that went on a bus, were armed some outwardly showing and others concealed carry. With some news stations reporting only a few thousand while others counting thru out the day many more than 12,000 or more (depending on who is better at counting) attending. Yet we didn't kill anyone, nor did we tear down any statues, matter of fact we didn't burn down any buildings, take over police precincts, and vandalize personal property. The Virginian Patriots (along with others from adjoining states) were able to exercise our constitutional rights without committing crimes. Yet even though we will be classified as maybe "far right wingers" our protest was peaceful as a walk in a park. What is going on now is just plain meanness using any perceived wrong as an an excuse to steal, vandalize and act like wild uncivilized third world countries inhabitants!
    Olerebjr.

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    nor did we tear down any statues,

    Shaw 54th Regiment Memorial defaced during protests
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sh...ts/ar-BB14TtDK


    Shows the ignorance.

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    That wasn't done in Richmond nor by us Virgina's that showed up for our state protest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AR475891 View Post
    You hit the nail on the head....

    All of this recent violence by police against reporters and actually peaceful protesters (Much of it caught on video) and the response of “patriots” to it has made me realize that a good chunk of the people in the 2A community and are on the political right are not “Constitutionalists” as they claim. They are just as bad if not worse than those on the left.

    I remember a few months ago when armed protesters were on state house grounds threatening legislators so they could get haircuts and go to Applebee’s during a pandemic that’s killed tens of thousands of people here. They were all crying about Tyranny and slavery. When real tyranny showed up weeks later... They were on the opposite side.

    “Oh there are curfews, they should be home”

    “They just need to listen to the cops and they’d be fine”

    “They needed to tear gas thousands of people because some were rioting”

    The hypocrisy was a wake up call for me. I’ve grown up in a conservative household and voted Republican for most of my life, but Lots of people on the Far right are just as bad as those on the Radical left if not worse right now. At least the left doesn’t pretend to like Individual freedom, small government, and states rights only when it’s convenient for them.

    I’m not sure about the rest of you, but I’ve seen some scary authoritarian streaks in the Republican Party over the last few months.... I’ve been trying to read more news from various sources in addition to Fox News recent to see multiple sites. Al Jazeera US actually has some really great old school journalism (with quotes from experts and not twitter) so I would recommend them. Washington Post is left leaning but more professional than CNN.
    It seems that lots of good people are waking up, I'm pretty sure those Generals who served honorably for 30/40/50? years and who decided finally to speak up on what they see did not do so lightly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    Funny how politics alters some folks perceptions.
    For instance, if there's even a rumor of Anti-facists bearings arms, (you know the ones we are allowed to carry via the 2A) panties jump rapidly upwards into certain butt cracks.
    BUT when the Bundy clan and playmates arm themselves to the teeth, including amateur sniper nests on an overlooking bridge, threaten to kill police officers and federal agents, well THAT'S just hunky dory.
    I guess Federal agents and local officers of the law are fair game, but facists who hold torchlight marches chanting "the jews will not replace us" and who kill Antifa protesters with cars are immune.
    Some are more equal than others, depending on how much ammo they have in the bunker?
    Looks like you're coming around, or are you ?? NOT !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AR475891 View Post
    You hit the nail on the head....

    All of this recent violence by police against reporters and actually peaceful protesters (Much of it caught on video)
    "When you sleep with dogs you get fleas !!" Mixing yourself in with rioters , puts you in the path of riot control. Stop with the bleeding heart !! And Al Jazeera , Really ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by GUNBB View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AR475891 View Post
    You hit the nail on the head....

    All of this recent violence by police against reporters and actually peaceful protesters (Much of it caught on video)
    "When you sleep with dogs you get fleas !!" Mixing yourself in with rioters , puts you in the path of riot control. Stop with the bleeding heart !! And Al Jazeera , Really ??
    Uhhh... Guilty by association? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? So you think Trump’s response of gassing/pepper balling/ rubber bullet shooting of actual unarmed protesters to take a picture because people THE NIGHT BEFORE lit a fire in its basement was justified? That makes no sense.

    Watch some of the videos on YouTube. There are many instances of cops pepper spraying people from behind, shooting people on their property with pepper balls, and arresting/attacking journalists with press credentials. One of the worst I saw was cops in Atlanta breaking the windows on a mans car and tasering him and his female passenger for taping them doing an arrest.... seriously wtf? What I’ve been seeing these past few weeks would be at home in a place like China, Russia, or Iran. How can we claim moral superiority when we do the same stuff as them?

    This is exactly what I am taking about though. People on the right are not treating protesters as fellow Americans. They are not your enemy. Do not forget that. You might not agree with them, but remember 99% of the people did not loot or riot and were just exercising their first amendment rights. Do not let Fox News convince your that they are “taking over the country”. They are just trying to drive you to click/watch more of their stuff to drive ad revenue the same as any other major MSM site.

    And Al Jazeera is a great news source. Just because it has a Muslim sounding name doesn’t mean anything. Like I said, they actually interview experts and cite sources in their articles instead of the pure opinionated crap a lot of American news groups put out today.

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    ATTENTION WALMART SHOPPERS!!!

    Look's peaceful to me?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDFs2UbyMfU

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    Quote Originally Posted by AR475891 View Post
    Uhhh... So you think Trump’s response of gassing/pepper balling/ rubber bullet shooting of actual unarmed protesters to take a picture because people THE NIGHT BEFORE lit a fire in its basement was justified?

    but remember 99% of the people did not loot or riot and were just exercising their first amendment rights.

    And Al Jazeera is a great news source. Just because it has a Muslim sounding name doesn’t mean anything. Like I said, they actually interview experts and cite sources in their articles instead of the pure opinionated crap a lot of American news groups put out today.
    So now , what, "Trump did It" !!!!! 99% didn't loot and Al Jazerrea is a great source of news ????? Must be the product of the school of nonsense or no sense . You honestly believe those silly statements? You really think some middle east rag sheet noise makers are honest because what, they love Americans ?? YOU are the problem in this country with your child like view of what's going on. I've been through several riots over the last 60 years and they all had one thing in common, personal greed !! The rioters steal . not for any cause, but because they can , and they're in it for themselves not some noble idea of any kind of justice. The dumb boobs that go down and join them get run over in the melee and blame the cops . The cops are doing what they're paid to do, protect the innocent and protect property . You go down and join that gangsters, you're going to get your head busted. The rioters shove you in the front as they run with their stolen goods. Wise up !!

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    I don't know ANYBODY on either side of the isle who wasn't disgusted and horrified by the actions of the four officers in Minneapolis. They should have been arrested and charged the minute that the videos first surfaced. Absolutely no question about it.

    By the same token, EVERYONE I know absolutely believes in and supports the right to lawfully protest in peace. There is also no question that the majority of the protests across the country have remained reasonably peaceful during the day.

    However, at night it's a different story.

    The decisions by liberal mayors across the country to stand down in the beginning to let the protestors to vent, rather than imposing early curfews helped to ignite the violence, looting and rioting that followed. This is what really lit the fuse. Now the mayor of Chicago is begging Walmart and other retailers to PLEASE not leave the burned out, ransacked parts of the city. Look it up on the web.

    This article below is one of dozens from across the country and it's not even Fox News!!! ..... WoW! ..... Say it ain't so Joe!

    It's from CBS in the liberal bastion of Frisco.

    Roving Looters Leave San Leandro Walmart Ransacked And Smoldering

    Syndicated Local – CBS San Francisco


    6/1/2020

    © Provided by CBS SF Bay Area

    SAN LEANDRO (CBS SF) — Looters smashed their way into the San Leandro Walmart store late Sunday night, shattering windows, stripping shelves, toppling displays and apparently igniting a fire.

    It was a symbol of the outbreak of lawlessness carried out by mobile bands of looters who moved from East Bay community to community, playing cat-and-mouse with police and wrecking havoc on retail stores, both large and small. Few communities were immune, but San Leandro was among the hardest hit.

    KPIX 5 was told around 5 a.m. Monday that some looting was still happening in the East Bay community in the area of the outlet mall.

    “Overnight, hundreds of criminals arrived in San Leandro and looted numerous shopping centers throughout the city,” the San Leandro police department said in a news release Monday. ” Several dozen businesses have been impacted as a result of the lootings…We want to reiterate, the San Leandro Police Department will not tolerate these criminal activities.”

    Police Department will not tolerate these criminal activities.”

    There was no immediate word from the San Leandro police or Alameda County Sheriff’s Department on the number of people arrested. KPIX 5 helicopter video did record several people being detained.

    The Westgate Center located just off Davis St. was the scene of utter devastation as the sun rose on Monday. Windows broken, shelves looted and stolen merchandise laying on the ground dropped and left behind in the looters hasty escape.

    The Burlington Coat Factory store was ransacked. Smoke still was drifting out the Walmart. Sprinklers activated by the smoke and fire were spraying water on merchandise. Security alarms could still be heard ringing.

    Firefighters said propane tanks located in the Lawn and Garden area of the store caught fire early Monday, igniting a column of fire.
    “We had active flames coming out of the roof,” said Alameda County Fire Chief Derrick Thomas.

    While firefighters would not confirm looters had set the blaze, the smoky interior of the store was filled with toppled shelves, aisles clutter with trashed merchandise and half-filled shopping carts.

    © Provided by CBS SF Bay Area

    Exasperated San Leandro officials had ordered a curfew in place effective immediately just before 11 p.m. after being confronted with dozens of 911 calls reporting a urge in crime Sunday. Residents were directed to stay at home except for first responders, people seeking medical care and those traveling to and from work.

    City of San Leandro @CitySanLeandro

    City of San Leandro has implemented a curfew, effective immediately. All residents are directed 2 stay home except 1st responders, those seeking med. care, those traveling 2 and from work, & unsheltered. The curfew will remain in effect until 5am. More info will b confirmed 2mor

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    Earlier, the Alameda County Sheriff’s Department confirmed that multiple people were seen going in and out of businesses and looting at the Bay Fair Mall. The sheriff deployed multiple resources to that part of county. Social media reports said that gunfire had erupted — a photo of a woman with an arm wound posted.

    Betty Yu
    @BettyKPIX

    Looting still happening at Bayfair mall in San Leandro. Alameda County Sheriff @ACSOSheriffs is recommending residents stay inside @KPIXtv

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    At 6:45 p.m., San Leandro police sent out an alert, warning residents to stay away from Bay Fair, Marina Square and the Westgate Center where looting was underway. Video from Chopper 5 showed looters moving in and out of the Designer Shoe Warehouse at Bay Fair Mall and shuffles breaking out near the parking lot over stolen merchandise.

    Sunday afternoon, mobile roving bands of looters had taken to East Bay freeways, cherry-picking stores and retail areas in several cities for quick strikes to smash windows and grab armfuls of stolen merchandise.

    The unrest led the Alameda County Sheriff’s Department to issue an advisory for residents to stay home at around 8:15 p.m..

    “All Alameda County residents are advised to stay home due to the civil unrest reported throughout Alameda County and the greater East Bay Area. Unless personal travel is necessary, we are recommending residents stay home due to the high number of police actions,” the advisory read. “Currently there are multiple reports of large, mobile groups of rioters and looters traveling throughout the East Bay Area.”

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    So now , what, "Trump did It" !!!!! 99% didn't loot and Al Jazerrea is a great source of news ????? Must be the product of the school of nonsense or no sense . You honestly believe those silly statements? You really think some middle east rag sheet noise makers are honest because what, they love Americans ?? YOU are the problem in this country with your child like view of what's going on. I've been through several riots over the last 60 years and they all had one thing in common, personal greed !! The rioters steal . not for any cause, but because they can , and they're in it for themselves not some noble idea of any kind of justice. The dumb boobs that go down and join them get run over in the melee and blame the cops . The cops are doing what they're paid to do, protect the innocent and protect property . You go down and join that gangsters, you're going to get your head busted. The rioters shove you in the front as they run with their stolen goods. Wise up !![/QUOTE]

    No Trump didn’t do it but he’s made the situation much worse by his incompetence. It’s his job as president of all Americans to try and calm the situation down and not threaten to send in the military to crack skulls of US citizens. He’s made it very clear he’s about him during all of this and not about the country.

    And seriously spend 10 min watching/reading some news that isn’t Fox. There are probably hundreds of protests that have happened with thousands of people in them over the last 3 weeks with no violence whatsoever. Just because there have been some looters that have taken advantage doesn’t mean the people protesting the actual injustice are doing anything wrong. I feel very confident saying that 99% of the participants were doing nothing criminal based on that alone.

    Also I’d definitely rank Al Jazeera higher than Fox News without question. Having a bunch of actors rambling on about their opinions in an effort to evoke an emotional response is not news. Thinking they are telling you the truth just because they are “American” and have flags all over there screens doesn’t mean anything. Media on both sides lie and twist things all the time which is why it’s important to get your news from multiple sources. Listen to some people whose options make you uncomfortable for awhile and see what happens. You might be surprised to see what else is out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AR475891 View Post
    So now , what, "Trump did It" !!!!! 99% didn't loot and Al Jazerrea is a great source of news ????? Must be the product of the school of nonsense or no sense . You honestly believe those silly statements? You really think some middle east rag sheet noise makers are honest because what, they love Americans ?? YOU are the problem in this country with your child like view of what's going on. I've been through several riots over the last 60 years and they all had one thing in common, personal greed !! The rioters steal . not for any cause, but because they can , and they're in it for themselves not some noble idea of any kind of justice. The dumb boobs that go down and join them get run over in the melee and blame the cops . The cops are doing what they're paid to do, protect the innocent and protect property . You go down and join that gangsters, you're going to get your head busted. The rioters shove you in the front as they run with their stolen goods. Wise up !!
    No Trump didnít do it but heís made the situation much worse by his incompetence. Itís his job as president of all Americans to try and calm the situation down and not threaten to send in the military to crack skulls of US citizens. Heís made it very clear heís about him during all of this and not about the country.

    And seriously spend 10 min watching/reading some news that isnít Fox. There are probably hundreds of protests that have happened with thousands of people in them over the last 3 weeks with no violence whatsoever. Just because there have been some looters that have taken advantage doesnít mean the people protesting the actual injustice are doing anything wrong. I feel very confident saying that 99% of the participants were doing nothing criminal based on that alone.

    Also Iíd definitely rank Al Jazeera higher than Fox News without question. Having a bunch of actors rambling on about their opinions in an effort to evoke an emotional response is not news. Thinking they are telling you the truth just because they are ďAmericanĒ and have flags all over there screens doesnít mean anything. Media on both sides lie and twist things all the time which is why itís important to get your news from multiple sources. Listen to some people whose options make you uncomfortable for awhile and see what happens. You might be surprised to see what else is out there.[/QUOTE]
    Obama started the current black/police problems by his impolitic rhetoric about Ferguson Missouri and Treyvon Martin in Florida before any real investigation occurred and the mainstream media unabashedly lied about those incidents to flame their viewership. Don't forget that.
    Trump probably is an agitator: and Pelosi and Schumer aren't? Or Maxine Waters? The mainstream media's (and Democratic Party's) constant narrative about Russia collusion distracted this country for 3 years. Does Trump bring stuff on himself? Probably. But why should Trump have much use for mainstream media or the political establishment or his political opposition he inherited? Have they demonstrated any trustyworthiness themselves? I think not.
    Fox for sure has its warts but at least they present an opposing view which no one else in MSM does: they are total gridlock groupthink. If Fox sometimes covers only part of a story it is at least a part of the story its msm rivals ignore.
    Can you take guys like Governor Cuomo or DiBlasio in New York seriously when they're willing to arrest people gathering in public during their self-proclaimed lockdowns but then do nothing about the protests AND riots and looters in their state/city? Not if you realistically think about it.
    Do you see any media coverage about unarmed whites being shot by police? Wonder why that is? Doesn't fit the agenda maybe? How about all those edited videos from earlier incidents. Does Fox also do it: likely. And the others don't? They've been caught too many times.
    I admit to favoring Fox news since it tends to play to my biases. I believe most of the opposing view on these boards accept the MSM because it plays to their biases as well. Just not sure they're so willing to admit it.
    A lot of these professional military top dogs are consumate politicans themselves or they'd not have made the rank. Do they have serious constitutional issues or are they miffed because Trump doesn't always accept their word on everything. What ARE we doing in the Mideast that will lead to any lasting changes? Can you say VietNam all over? Not that that's the military's fault per se: it is a failure of American politicians yet again.

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    There was something mentioned here about the RKBA at one point ...
    I'm always looking for rare varieties of 9x18 ammunition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hannibalbarca View Post
    No Trump didn’t do it but he’s made the situation much worse by his incompetence. It’s his job as president of all Americans to try and calm the situation down and not threaten to send in the military to crack skulls of US citizens. He’s made it very clear he’s about him during all of this and not about the country.

    And seriously spend 10 min watching/reading some news that isn’t Fox. There are probably hundreds of protests that have happened with thousands of people in them over the last 3 weeks with no violence whatsoever. Just because there have been some looters that have taken advantage doesn’t mean the people protesting the actual injustice are doing anything wrong. I feel very confident saying that 99% of the participants were doing nothing criminal based on that alone.

    Also I’d definitely rank Al Jazeera higher than Fox News without question. Having a bunch of actors rambling on about their opinions in an effort to evoke an emotional response is not news. Thinking they are telling you the truth just because they are “American” and have flags all over there screens doesn’t mean anything. Media on both sides lie and twist things all the time which is why it’s important to get your news from multiple sources. Listen to some people whose options make you uncomfortable for awhile and see what happens. You might be surprised to see what else is out there.

    His job as Chief of the Executive Branch was first and foremost to assure the American People the country was not coming apart and their SAFETY would be paramount. He has done that. Once more he has listened very closely to his Military advisors. What is happening is in Seattle and Atlanta is not a Federal issue until those states ask for help. The American people know that should it come to that, the Federal Government has their back to provide that safety, security, and rule of law.

    IN the meantime, the events in Seattle and Atlanta puts on display the incompetence and inability to govern of the Democrats. It is their Municipal Leadership that has caused the issues.

    I'm pretty sure those Generals who served honorably for 30/40/50? years and who decided finally to speak up on what they see did not do so lightly.
    Folks really misunderstood what General Milley meant. He did disagree with Trump nor does he lack support for his Commander and Chief. He regretted being in the photo at the church because of the perception it created that the Military is partisan. It is not. That does not mean the Military in any way shape or form does not support Donald Trump as one of the best Commanders and Chief we have had for a few decades. He is head and shoulder above the last guy who had that job in every respect.


    What I find hilarious is once again the Nanny Party says, "Do as I say not as I do" when it comes to the 2nd Amendment. Immediately, a border wall was built and armed guards controlled entry into CHAZ. It is ok if they take away our guns but not theirs....Proof the Democrat's agenda on Gun Control is not about Guns or reducing crime but just about their Control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AR475891 View Post
    So now , what, "Trump did It" !!!!! 99% didn't loot and Al Jazerrea is a great source of news ????? Must be the product of the school of nonsense or no sense . You honestly believe those silly statements? You really think some middle east rag sheet noise makers are honest because what, they love Americans ?? YOU are the problem in this country with your child like view of what's going on. I've been through several riots over the last 60 years and they all had one thing in common, personal greed !! The rioters steal . not for any cause, but because they can , and they're in it for themselves not some noble idea of any kind of justice. The dumb boobs that go down and join them get run over in the melee and blame the cops . The cops are doing what they're paid to do, protect the innocent and protect property . You go down and join that gangsters, you're going to get your head busted. The rioters shove you in the front as they run with their stolen goods. Wise up !!
    No Trump didnít do it but heís made the situation much worse by his incompetence. Itís his job as president of all Americans to try and calm the situation down and not threaten to send in the military to crack skulls of US citizens. Heís made it very clear heís about him during all of this and not about the country.

    And seriously spend 10 min watching/reading some news that isnít Fox. There are probably hundreds of protests that have happened with thousands of people in them over the last 3 weeks with no violence whatsoever. Just because there have been some looters that have taken advantage doesnít mean the people protesting the actual injustice are doing anything wrong. I feel very confident saying that 99% of the participants were doing nothing criminal based on that alone.

    Also Iíd definitely rank Al Jazeera higher than Fox News without question. Having a bunch of actors rambling on about their opinions in an effort to evoke an emotional response is not news. Thinking they are telling you the truth just because they are ďAmericanĒ and have flags all over there screens doesnít mean anything. Media on both sides lie and twist things all the time which is why itís important to get your news from multiple sources. Listen to some people whose options make you uncomfortable for awhile and see what happens. You might be surprised to see what else is out there.[/QUOTE]
    More silly, unfounded accusations and testimony . You bring in "Trump" and "Fox News" when it hasn't even been mentioned. That exposes you as a left wing agitator with no credentials who spouts wildly inaccurate statements. Don't worry you have others here who are just as confused about themselves as you are. If you knew anything more than "hate Trump" , you'd know the President can't get involved in local state issues ,unless asked . As far as Fox News, I've seen bozos like Cuomo and Charlatan, on there to spout their lies, something the other low life stations neglect to do. Grow up !!

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    So you think Trump’s response of gassing/pepper balling/ rubber bullet shooting of actual unarmed protesters to take a picture because people THE NIGHT BEFORE lit a fire in its basement was justified? That makes no sense.
    Not factual. Riot control measures where unleashed lawfully upon rioters and combative individuals. Two separate incidents. One the Secret Service did it's job by controlling an individual who attempted to assault one of their officers. The Park Police controlled a group of rioters who decided to throw projectiles at the Police. Kudos to the Police for their use of non-lethals against these rioters.

    What they did not do and what is a flat out lie...is use pepper gas on "peaceful" demonstrators.

    But in an about-face, the agency said in a statement Saturday that an employee used pepper spray in response to an "assaultive individual."
    The U.S. Park Police said in a statement Saturday its officers deployed smoke canisters, stinger balls and pepper balls after protesters became combative. The protesters threw projectiles, grabbed officers' protective equipment and tried to grab one officer's weapon, according to Park Police.
    https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...to-op/2332942/



    There are a lot of clickbait headlines that purposely create a false impression to gain an emotional response.

    Police Say Pepper Balls Used to Clear Protesters For Trump Walk

    But if you read the article:

    The Park Police patrols National Parks in Washington, D.C., including Lafayette Square across from the White House. It said in its statement that it began clearing the protesters after they threw “projectiles including bricks, frozen water bottles and caustic liquids,” and that officers found “caches of glass bottles, baseball bats and metal poles hidden along the street” near Lafayette Square.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ters-for-trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Bender View Post
    There was something mentioned here about the RKBA at one point ...

    HA HA HA. buried now under piles of bullcrap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Bender View Post
    There was something mentioned here about the RKBA at one point ...
    Are you sure?
    Charlie
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