Shooting a '36 PE Tula sniper
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Thread: Shooting a '36 PE Tula sniper

  1. #1
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    Default Shooting a '36 PE Tula sniper

    I post here as I figure the Mosin element more interesting than the sniper deal.
    Working up loads for an original '36 PE w/'36 original PE scope....it has been re snipered tho. The Bore is nice but not great...the throat worn but the muzzle still in good shape. It does not compare with my arsenal PU (great tolerances there) but I just love shooting this old gal so worked up some loads.
    You'll see two 100 yard 3 round groups...both are 174 gn. Hornady match (I've found these boat tails work better than non BT's in the same weight contrary to what many advise.)...the inside group of 3 is at a COAL of 3.030 in. with 45.5 GN of Hodgon H335...the outside group is the same bullet with a COAL of 2.90 @ 43 gn's of the same powder.
    That is the fun of reloading and you can see the dif...this was demonstrated numerous times...tighter groups with the one load.
    Worn throats like a longer COAL and a heavier charge to seal the throat better. Still working btw in fine tuning....what great historical working pieces these old snipers...or simply older Mosins are.Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by reiver1; 06-21-2020 at 11:43 PM.

  2. #2
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    I can't find any Speer bullets in that weight, do you mean Sierra Match Kings ?

    If so, I have found 174 gr BTHP SMK's to be .311 diameter and while they do perform great, the .312 Hornady bring in better accuracy.

    I have never tested the 150 gr Sierra's or Hornady, they cost the same as the 174 gr and have less utility for me. Granted 150 gr will hold out to 600 and less recoil so they are a option for many.

    In the early days of the wave of refurb PU sniper imports a few years back, there was much discussion that the PU sniper was issued with 147 or 150 gr ammunition (which was available everywhere dirt cheap in spam cans at the time). And great fur flying when some of us reloaders reported 174 gr BTHP being more accurate which brought up the discussion (now myth) that a Boat Tail bullet was not going to be accurate and a flat base bullet would be superior for accuracy. This same discussion of BT vs Flat Base was often repeated on Enfield forum.

    There was no surplus 174 gr flat base bullet ammo for either PU or Enfields to be had, and commercial flat base bullets of this weight was not a offering by any bullet company in USA. So the discussion was rather moot.....but it persisted and still does. The fact is in all my Mosins and Lee Enfields (20 plus count) rifles, the 174 gr BTHP .312 Hornady shoot extremely accurate. The caveat there is all those rifles have spectacular bores. Perhaps if the bore were worn and throats shot out, a flat base bullet would excel for accuracy ?

    I do know this, I did take a .312 Hornady 174 gr Flat Base Round Nose hunting bullet... at 300 yds its accuracy was twice the size group as the .312 Hornady 174 gr BTHP bullet . At 600 yds the Round Nose bullet shot wide and shot 38 inches lower than the BTHP bullet load. Terrible at 600 yds but its a RN hunting bullet and its ballistics is like a garbage can. Its a deer hunting bullet and at deer hunting ranges its perfectly fine..200 yds or less.

    Last shot at this flat base issue: I have some 1980 South African 303 ammo, its loaded with the issue 174 gr Flat Base Mark VII bullets. This being the load and bullet designed for Lee Enfields. Its a great accurate round at 1000 yds but it does not shoot as accurately as my 303 match load using Hornady .312 diameter 174 gr Boat Tail Hollow Point bullets.

    Would I buy FMJ BT bullets that mimic the Mark VII and try them in PU snipers , M39's and Enfields? Sure would and if they were available I could definitely prove this myth that Flat Base shoot better in PU snipers and Enfields . They are not available and all my tests to date show BTHP bullets bring in phenomenal accuracy.

    Perhaps bullet making today is superior to WWII bullet making and BTHP bullets are more suitable for PU snipers and Enfields than is commonly thought.

  3. #3
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    She is easy on the eye. Very nice. Don't see many of these. Really enjoy shooting, so it's great to see these historical war horses brought back to life. Excellent shooting by the way. Not as easy as one may think to have a group that tight. Thanks for posting.

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  5. #4
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    Sorry Skip.....I was concerned with getting the load correct and just did the bullets from bad memory. These were the Hornady in .312..my bore gauge says this old '36 requires it....my PU uses the same in .311.
    This is a Woodleigh .312 in 174grn. weight next to a Hornady 174 .312. The WL has the characteristics often articulated flat bottom and more surface area...they are listed as .303 British in most places.
    Try them out.....in my case they under performed and I simply stopped shooting them...the boat tail Sierra/Hornady in .311/.312 has been the most consistently accurate bullet.
    The only dif here (above) was COAL/powder charge . As you know that can really make a dif.Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by reiver1; 06-21-2020 at 11:41 PM.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13 Colony Patriot View Post
    She is easy on the eye. Very nice. Don't see many of these. Really enjoy shooting, so it's great to see these historical war horses brought back to life. Excellent shooting by the way. Not as easy as one may think to have a group that tight. Thanks for posting.
    Thanks....I'm working up some loads for my PEM and and I'll post that too when I get that done. I believe everyone on this site is a history buff besides a Mosin N collector and shooting these older rifles is special in that light. In my case it is the 'using' that brings them to life. I have a friend with a '44 PU that he shoots with...they were 'born' in the same year and both are still going strong. It was my rifle and he wanted it badly and I didn't figure out the connection until later....he really enjoys it.

  7. #6
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    Nice shooting Reiver, and a lovely looking rifle too....

    I've said it before in other posts but I get really good results in both my PU and SVD with PPU .311" 150gr SPBT bullets and personally found them to be more consistently accurate than either Sierra or Hornady bullets.They have a comparatively short boat-tail and I don't know if that helps.

    The load I use for them, using Viht N140 , must mimic a Russian military LPS round quite well as the BDC elevation drum settings on my PSO-1 still correspond, at least out to 900m anyway.
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  8. #7
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    My PU will do fine with most any .311 as it is an arsenal PU with very good tolerances.....my PE/PEM are a bit 'loose' in certain areas and require a .312.
    I've tried the PPU in 174/.311 but the weight variation between rounds can be rather high.
    I'll give the 150's a shot tho...I enjoy playing with dif loads anyway....how many grains of N140 do you use with that round?

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by reiver1 View Post
    My PU will do fine with most any .311 as it is an arsenal PU with very good tolerances.....my PE/PEM are a bit 'loose' in certain areas and require a .312.
    I've tried the PPU in 174/.311 but the weight variation between rounds can be rather high.
    I'll give the 150's a shot tho...I enjoy playing with dif loads anyway....how many grains of N140 do you use with that round?
    I use 44gr of N140 and seat the bullet to a COAL of 2.86".

    44gr of RL-15 with the same seating depth gives the same or very similar results accuracy-wise, as does 48.5gr of Ramshot Big Game.

    I worked out loads for the three different powders that give near identical results so I'm not reliant one powder in the event of availability problems.

    These charge weights are very near the starting loading, they work for me but the usual cautions apply if anyone replicates them.
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snayperskaya View Post
    I use 44gr of N140 and seat the bullet to a COAL of 2.86".

    44gr of RL-15 with the same seating depth gives the same or very similar results accuracy-wise, as does 48.5gr of Ramshot Big Game.

    I worked out loads for the three different powders that give near identical results so I'm not reliant one powder in the event of availability problems.

    These charge weights are very near the starting loading, they work for me but the usual cautions apply if anyone replicates them.

    Thanks...always like to see others 'dope' (that ages me doesn't it)....I don't worry about loads in a Mosin N.... I'm not nuts but you can't really blow this thing up even with crazy way over pressure loads.... I know you've seen the vids...but worth posting for anyone new...

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by reiver1 View Post
    Thanks...always like to see others 'dope' (that ages me doesn't it)....I don't worry about loads in a Mosin N.... I'm not nuts but you can't really blow this thing up even with crazy way over pressure loads.... I know you've seen the vids...but worth posting for anyone new...

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE
    My N.E.W was recently proofed at the Birmingham Proofhouse here in the UK with two proof rounds that are C.I.P max pressure plus 25%, thats around 70,706 psi.

    The guy at the Proofhouse said they've never had a Mosin blow yet!.
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  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by reiver1 View Post
    Sorry Skip.....I was concerned with getting the load correct and just did the bullets from bad memory. These were the Hornady in .312..my bore gauge says this old '36 requires it....my PU uses the same in .311.
    This is a Woodleigh .312 in 174grn. weight next to a Hornady 174 .312. The WL has the characteristics often articulated flat bottom and more surface area...they are listed as .303 British in most places.
    Try them out.....in my case they under performed and I simply stopped shooting them...the boat tail Sierra/Hornady in .311/.312 has been the most consistently accurate bullet.
    The only dif here (above) was COAL/powder charge . As you know that can really make a dif.Click image for larger version. 

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    Very nice

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