N.E.W range outing......
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Thread: N.E.W range outing......

  1. #1
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    Default N.E.W range outing......

    After sorting on the feed issue on my recently acquired N.E.W I got it out to the range earlier today to adjust the windage and put some rounds through it.

    I shot this target at 100m on a rest with the rear sight as low as it would go, point of aim was approx 15" lower than point of impact.Personally I think this is good for a 105 year old rifle but is it?, is this typical of a M91 with a good bore/muzzle?......target itself is 8" in diameter.

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  2. #2
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    Not sure what ammo you used, but that is very good shooting indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckstopper View Post
    Not sure what ammo you used, but that is very good shooting indeed.
    Handloads with .311" 150gr PPU SPBT bullets and RL-15 powder.
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  5. #4
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    Really nice shooting, at 100 yards with an ole milsurp M91 or a modern ar15. I use a 6 inch circle target, and if I stay in the circle at that distance, it's a fine day for me. My M91 shoots about 18 inches high of POA, simply because the front sight blade isnt tall enough for 100 yard shooting. No biggie.
    Sure others will shoot 2 inch groups and that's great, but for me using generic steel case ammo, a group such as yours with irons is a solid A+. You have a winner sir. Nice job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 13 Colony Patriot View Post
    Really nice shooting, at 100 yards with an ole milsurp M91 or a modern ar15. I use a 6 inch circle target, and if I stay in the circle at that distance, it's a fine day for me. My M91 shoots about 18 inches high of POA, simply because the front sight blade isnt tall enough for 100 yard shooting. No biggie.
    Sure others will shoot 2 inch groups and that's great, but for me using generic steel case ammo, a group such as yours with irons is a solid A+. You have a winner sir. Nice job.
    Thank you

    I did toy with the idea of fitting a taller front sight blade but decided against it as I'd prefer to keep it original.In future I'll put a smaller target 15" below my main target and use that as a aim point.

    At what distance was the M91 originally zero'd at?, was it 400 arshins?
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    What powder grain load again? As reloader 15 does not list a 7.62x54r (no big deal I know) what round did you use for comparison that they do list?

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    Is your Westinghouse a Finnish capture?

    If still original Russian rear sight ladder base would be 400 arshin, which is about 311 yards or 285 meters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reiver1 View Post
    What powder grain load again? As reloader 15 does not list a 7.62x54r (no big deal I know) what round did you use for comparison that they do list?
    44gr of RL-15, gives me near identical performance as 44gr of Vihtavuori N140

    My Lyman reloading manual lists it as RX15.......
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Thorne View Post
    Is your Westinghouse a Finnish capture?

    If still original Russian rear sight ladder base would be 400 arshin, which is about 311 yards or 285 meters.
    No, not Finnish-captured nor been to The Balkans etc, only marks are N.E.W factory marks and Cyrillic proofs.It also appears to have had very little use as the bore and muzzle look almost as good as new.It is a bit of a mystery as to where it has been, it was found in a dark corner of an elderly firearms dealers workshop here in the UK after it was cleared out following him passing away.It was absolutely filthy and covered in grease/cosmoline, had never been proofed in the UK (a legal requirement for all firearms sold here) and it has never been registered on the UK firearms database until it was put on my firearms certificate.

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  12. #11
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    Snayperskaya: I'll bet if you keep trying other ammunition (both handloads and commercial) you'll find something that performs even better. As far as how much better may be possible, the only M91 types I shoot that perform significantly better than what you've shown, are two of my Finn 91/24's with heavy barrels. I have a Remington that does 10 shot groups quite like yours. I ignore total group size and try to evaluate groups using the the Soviet "R50", "R75" approach, or the old British "Figure of Merit" (average radial deviation) and, I suspect, using these methods your group would probably conform with original military acceptance cutoffs. The other thing is precise bore condition is all over the page on these old rifles. I've run my borescope through a couple that I would have described visually as pretty good and been shocked. Regards.

    Ruprecht

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruprecht View Post
    Snayperskaya: I'll bet if you keep trying other ammunition (both handloads and commercial) you'll find something that performs even better. As far as how much better may be possible, the only M91 types I shoot that perform significantly better than what you've shown, are two of my Finn 91/24's with heavy barrels. I have a Remington that does 10 shot groups quite like yours. I ignore total group size and try to evaluate groups using the the Soviet "R50", "R75" approach, or the old British "Figure of Merit" (average radial deviation) and, I suspect, using these methods your group would probably conform with original military acceptance cutoffs. The other thing is precise bore condition is all over the page on these old rifles. I've run my borescope through a couple that I would have described visually as pretty good and been shocked. Regards.

    Ruprecht
    I'll be trying different bullet weights etc when I get chance, I've got handloads already made up with various weights, PPU and Sellier & Bellot factory ammo and milsurp from various nations.......I would have put more through the M91 on Saturday but I took the PU as well and got sidetracked with that!.

    I've got a few hundred 200gr cast bullets that I'm going to work a reduced load up with using different powder, will try and see if I can drop the point of impact down a bit and if I can get a decent accurate reduced load with them I may stick with them in this rifle rather than running full power FMJ through it.This most likely won't be shot past 100m very often so I don't really need a full power load in the old girl.
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  14. #13
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    Just wondering....this is gunz in general not just this example.

    Do you shoot a few different flavors (if available) of factory and record their performance (group, and chrono data) then start on working up your loads, recording different powders, weights of powders, bullets....bla bla bla. All in trying to find just what a given gun likes. This usually takes a bit of time.

    Usually what I will do is (after it is zeroed) run two 10 round groups of ammo X, record the findings, then move to the next ammo type. This is generally what I do (sometimes it does not take 10 rounds to see a gun does not like it) for everything from pellet guns up to 45-70.

    Then when working up my loads I will load up generally 10 rounds again, and get a good idea on if it has a chance to do well or not.....if not cross off the list, if so I will work up 20 of that given recipe for a full on test.

    Just looking for other ideas on how people do it.

  15. #14
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    Normally, I don't have easy access to very long rifle ranges, so I shoot cast bullets in my M1891's, if the bores are in good shape. I can adjust the powder combinations to zero the rifle, even with those crude Konalov sights and Russian or Finn front sights. A 200 or 220 grain cast bullet sized to .313--.314" with 16-20 grains of 2400 usually zeros quite well. The recoil is pretty slight.
    "No Anchovies? You got the wrong man, I spell my name Danger!" (Click)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FGD135 View Post
    Normally, I don't have easy access to very long rifle ranges, so I shoot cast bullets in my M1891's, if the bores are in good shape. I can adjust the powder combinations to zero the rifle, even with those crude Konalov sights and Russian or Finn front sights. A 200 or 220 grain cast bullet sized to .313--.314" with 16-20 grains of 2400 usually zeros quite well. The recoil is pretty slight.
    Have you tried Viht N120 powder with cast loads in 54r?, I have a load to try that was suggested to me by an extremely knowledgeable and experienced cast bullet shooter that swears by N120.

    For FMJ's in 54r I use either Viht N140, Reloader-15 or Ramshot Big Game, charge weights for both N140 and Reloader-15 are virtually identical and I've had some excellent results from Big Game with very small consistent groups but I did run into a problem with Big Game in cold weather if I used Murom primers......some rounds would have a noticeable "click...bang" delay and others would fail to fire, with the bullet pushed out of the case enough to engage the rifling but the bulk of the powder would just be scorched and unburnt!.Another shooter at my club experienced exactly the same thing around the same time, with Big Game powder and Murom primers in cold conditions.We have both subsequently used the same combination in warm weather conditions with no problems at all.
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  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snayperskaya View Post
    Have you tried Viht N120 powder with cast loads in 54r?, I have a load to try that was suggested to me by an extremely knowledgeable and experienced cast bullet shooter that swears by N120.

    For FMJ's in 54r I use either Viht N140, Reloader-15 or Ramshot Big Game, charge weights for both N140 and Reloader-15 are virtually identical and I've had some excellent results from Big Game with very small consistent groups but I did run into a problem with Big Game in cold weather if I used Murom primers......some rounds would have a noticeable "click...bang" delay and others would fail to fire, with the bullet pushed out of the case enough to engage the rifling but the bulk of the powder would just be scorched and unburnt!.Another shooter at my club experienced exactly the same thing around the same time, with Big Game powder and Murom primers in cold conditions.We have both subsequently used the same combination in warm weather conditions with no problems at all.
    I've not used VV powder in a very long time due to cost considerations...but used VVN135 and VV150 in my 6.5x54r Soviet Vostok rifle for a while. Excellent accuracy, as you would expect.
    I shoot many other accurate loadings for my Finnish M28-30s and 39s, but I stick to the cast bullets at moderate velocties for the old long M91s; 2400 is inexpensive and available here, and produces good results.
    "No Anchovies? You got the wrong man, I spell my name Danger!" (Click)

  18. #17
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    There are a couple VV powders that I am really interested in for some trap door loads. Pressures are to be in the low-mid teens IIRC, that is about the only thing I shoot cast out of. I have several different work ups for 54R, most of the bolt guns like the same thing, but the automatics are just way off in left field....funny how that works.

    With the current mess we are all dealing with the club is basically shut down, and the new place I was looking at is closed as well, the new place has out to 500. At home I shoot 100, and that is far enough to get a good idea on what is going on.

  19. #18
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    mine likes .313 DIA. cast lead. but that is mine. an A+ for you. aren't they great!! now just wait till the rest of the family shows up on your door step! kudos to you.

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