Re-thinking my Survival Rifle/Caliber
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Thread: Re-thinking my Survival Rifle/Caliber

  1. #1
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    Default Re-thinking my Survival Rifle/Caliber

    So I have my Keltec sub-2K Gen 2 9mm in my go bag. It's friggin heavy with 300 rnds in it.
    I also got a new Ruger 10-22 stainless, but it don't fold.
    I was researching the rimfires just for caliber plus ability to take down a deer to bunnies without blowing them to itty bitty pieces + range. Don't want a .22 or .22 mag seems just to light a round, have and had both.
    I was thinking the .17hmr would be good. But then you see a .22 WMR which is similar and also .17 Win Super Mag.

    Would appreciate some feed back on those cartridges. The sub-2K seems like overkill and more along the lines of defensive weapon than a true survival weapon.

    Then I need a real light weight folding rifle to go with it. I figure while I'm researching someone could give me feedback. Thanks!
    I do love my new 10-22 though. Had one when I was 10 or 12 years old, thats like 52 years ago.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 10 22.jpg  

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    No feedback on those cartridges but don't they make a folding stock for the 10/22? I know you said you don't like the .22. But you can carry a lot of .22 ammo. I bought a new 10/22 a few years ago cause it was on sale looks cheaply made but functions and is accurate

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostinspace View Post
    No feedback on those cartridges but don't they make a folding stock for the 10/22? I know you said you don't like the .22. But you can carry a lot of .22 ammo. I bought a new 10/22 a few years ago cause it was on sale looks cheaply made but functions and is accurate
    Yes Ruger has a take down .22 but wanting a little bit more firepower. The Savage Model 24 is looking good, break down .410/.22mag. It's hard finding anything in .17hmr thats got a magazine.
    https://gundigest.com/rifles/7-salty...ival-situation

    https://www.outdoorlife.com/six-best...les-under-600/
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  5. #4
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    I got a Savage model 24 in 22/20 ga and I have chamber inserts in 9mm 38/357 and 45/410 for the 20 gauge and a 10/22 in a AR style folding stock

    have Enfield mkV for big game ( well deer/ stuff you can eat) but you can get 32acp chamber inserts for 303 and that 32 becomes almost totally silenced only good for close range <50 yards on small game but good if you need quiet, out of a No.4 it is dead silent but rather carry ammo weight than the extra gun weight/ somebody already shaved the V's stock down and put a comb on the butt w/ big rubber ventilated butt pad so it's about as light and comfy as it can be. Stained a God awful red .. was going to put it a proper stock but never found one before I fell in love .. freaks folks either side of me out when I'm practicing with the 32 ammo at the range * downside must eject the adapter and stick poke the 32 casing out .. just makes me concentrate more on the shot. shoot the 32 without the mag in , mag handy with big bullets just 'n case


    don't get me wrong I don't go lugging around a dozen different calibers I have 1 box of 32 in my load out and a bando of 303 a brick of 22 and all the different kinds of 20 gauge I can pack, bird to buck to slug , heavier on the bird shot and find no6 best all around .. we get turkey and geese occasional so some #4 most the shotty ammo is not carried around EDC .. but I can select from my supply based on what's for dinner

    most bird and squirrel / rabbit are more meal sized less to preserve and less waste not a big chore to prep

    the chamber inserts are for contingencies and opportunities when ammo is hard to come by

    PS dogs got packs carry their own food and water / treats, and some odds and ends/ ammo/ tools

    tried the travois' thing .. will try again if I get another puppy spooks the hell out of a dog that wasn't raise with it

    not that there is dangerous game around here other than pigs, but I got a Great Pyrenes , this only works with full blooded Pyr's ,check for the double rear dew claw only full bloods have it look up on you tube or internet Great Pyr V any North American dangerous game or their efficacy against predictors https://www.great-pyrenees-club-of-s...dian-dogs.html

    you can't train them to do that.. it's in the breed natural instinct .. so mine doesn't carry a pack

    down side they won't hunt or kill for YOU.. they will feed themselves and share with the pack they are smart https://www.ktvu.com/news/hero-dog-a...-country-fires https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...torm-approach/ they know their job
    Last edited by AmmoSgt; 06-27-2020 at 03:01 PM.
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  6. #5
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    Default Survival Weapons I'D GO TO

    I was happy to run across this "Survival Weapons" thread since this was a subject matter I've been giving much thought to since the virous thing has been thrust upon us and all the stupidity some major parts of the country are currently experiencing. It seems the leadership across the nation is just sitting by, watching it happen and grow and seemingly afraid to step up and do what they took an oath to do and that is to defend and protect the citizens of the US from enemies foreign and domestic.

    All that aside, I've been considering what weapons I go to first if (God forbid) it comes down to defending and feeding my family, loved ones and very close friends here in my remote location of western Montana. I boiled my choice down to three. These pieces are a Ruger 10/.22 with a mounted 6 power scope, a stainless steel Ruger Vaquero in .45 Colt caliber with a 5.5" barrel and a Marlin Model 1894 lever action carbine in .45 Colt caliber. I reload all my ammo (except for the .22 caliber of course) and I can reload .45 Colt cases with light charges or heavy charges to nearly .44 Magnum pressures if ever required to do so. I've even reloaded the .45 Colt cases with 7 1/2 bird shot for close up grouse shooting or wild turkeys, both of which there are a great abundance of in my area. I have shot guns in .410 ga., 20 ga., and 12 ga. but seldom use them. In addition to my firearms I have a cross bow that sends a bolt out at 325 fps. but I don't use it much. Attached below are photos of my three primary survival weapons . Any & all comments are welcome, good, bad or otherwise.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SUNP1736.jpg  

    SUNP1737.jpg  

    SUNP1738.jpg  

    SUNP1739.jpg  

    SUNP1740.jpg  

    SUNP1741.jpg  

    SUNP1742.jpg  

    SUNP1743.jpg  

    SUNP1744.jpg  


  7. #6
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    Think practicing "bullet placement" more than "Mo Power".
    A well placed .22RF HP will take down things considerably bigger than Rabbits. It'll do it with less meat destruction too.
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    plonker ---- Thanks for your comment concerning "bullet placement" and "Mo Power". Yes I'm aware that bullet placement is an all important factor when taking down a critter. However here in my immediate area there are several critters "bigger than Rabbits" such as 300 pound black bears and 800 + pound grizzles. A .22RF HP can't do much against such a beast, especially when it could be on a guy's / gal's porch. That isn't a rare occurrence in these parts. Such critters come down out of Glacier National Park (not many miles distance from my front door) on their circuit through our neck of the woods. Just today a neighbor of mine told me his dog was having a real fit. The neighbor looked out his window at a fairly large black bear within 50 yds. of his front door. The bear sniffed around for a few minutes and wandered off into the woods. The dog's barking caused the bear to wander away.
    I'm not saying I'd attempt to take such an animal out with a hot loaded .45 Colt round. I have much bigger pieces for such occurrences if necessary. But for deer and possibly an occasional elk within 100 yds. I believe my warm .45 Colt reloads would suffice. The .45 Colt would be intended for putting meat on my table. Thanks again for your remarks.

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    BC public officials swear to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic .. not us citizens

    You can reload 22 rimfire or any rimfire http://22lrreloader.com/design-details/ kit has almost everything you need and they sell everything you need . of most interest is the priming compound so you can reprime the spent cases https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.m...iming-compound a neat thing about the priming compound is you can use it to reprime berdan primers after you bump the pin dent out as well as bigger rimfires like 41 cal

    they even include a bullet mold so you can make proper 22 cal rebated bullets unfortunately it only makes round solid nose in two different weights

    Fortunately you can get one of Paco's tool's http://www.pacotools.com/ the one you want is the acu'rzr http://www.pacotools.com/tool_discriptions... but you should really read all the descriptions of all the tools. it main function actually is to tune the bullet diameter so it fits exactly in the weapon .. read the notes not all 22 guns are exactly 22 cal , some are tighter some are sloppier.. you can tailor the bullet to the gun for max accuracy.. but it does so much more

    back to the acu'rzr for a minute.. that nasty nose tool makes a wicked bullet. and you can use the acu'rzr on any factory 22 ammo to make many styles of expanding ammo bullets .. read the notes watch the videos

    I have and have used the products on this page, they are real, and they work ( not that I think it is sane to reload 22 rimfire when the stores are open and it's on the shelf at a sane price). but it's a survival thing with me , just to have the back-up capability

    But those nose modifiers work BIG TIME and I have reloaded some berdan primers and they work well, but, that to is a tedious job, and you have to try and be as uniform as possible to get the best accuracy.

    Watch all the video's for both products they explain everything better then I can.

    if Paco's other tools work as well as the ones I have, then they would be worth having if they fit a need
    Three People to never believe

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    AmmoSgt ---- Thanks for you good info. on reloading .22 RF ammo. Several years ago I ordered and received 8k rounds of .22 RF HP and by my last count I have somewhere between 5500 and 6000 rounds remaining. These remaining rounds are stored in a cool, dry old refrigerator located in a well hidden partial basement. There is desiccant material in the refrigerator to absorb any moisture that might come in with the air when I open the door. It sounds as though you have gone to great lengths to maintain your supply of .22 ammo. Nearly all my .22 shooting is done with a semi auto rifle or pistol so searching through grass and weeds that might be a few inches to a foot tall for spent .22 brass is a bit more than I care to do when out and about burning powder with my .22's. Thanks for the good info on reloading for the tiny cartridge.

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    Ammo, good tip on the .303 -> .32 adapter, I had not considered that!

    I wanted to throw the M1 Carbine out there, quite versatile. I mean, it was designed as a bridge between handgun & rifle.... just sayin.
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    wink2

    Ammo in a Alice back pack not a strain...
    a survivalist wants game to man take down abilities..! ( just saying)
    17-22...just don’t cut it!
    223=military, easy replaced, and configured to your taste?

    i would be over gunned, than under estimated too lately..
    ( you could carry 22 insert.) for none attention small game Getting!)

    ps: I have a 71/2 barrel AR 223 pistol..with scope, or laser...fit it your back pack..
    "Christ’s Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

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    I don't know about the 22 adapter for the AR ..for me there might be some issues .. I have a CMMG for mine, and truth be told a lot depends on the kind of week I have had.. but knowing I have a full mag of 25 that's gonna cost me a buck/ buck and a quarter instead of $6-$7 for a mag of 30.. it only lasts a few seconds .. I forget to aim carefully and then I scream.. second mag seems to take longer and I don't feel the need to scream as much but it does make me feel better.

    can't be good to use up ammo like that in shtf situation, especially knowing in advance it's likely to have been a tense week.

    can't burn a box of ammo like that with a model 24
    Last edited by AmmoSgt; 06-28-2020 at 03:54 AM.
    Three People to never believe

    A Religious Leader who tells you how to Vote

    A Politician who tells you how to Pray

    And

    A Draft Dodger who tells you how to be a Patriot

    And Smiling Bob

    Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason toward my country.”
    — PATRICK HENRY

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    Quote Originally Posted by DK PHILLIPS View Post
    Ammo in a Alice back pack not a strain...
    a survivalist wants game to man take down abilities..! ( just saying)
    17-22...just don’t cut it!
    223=military, easy replaced, and configured to your taste?

    i would be over gunned, than under estimated too lately..
    ( you could carry 22 insert.) for none attention small game Getting!)

    ps: I have a 71/2 barrel AR 223 pistol..with scope, or laser...fit it your back pack..
    What he says ^^^.

    Availability of 5.56 ammo, and in a SBR, pistol with 10.5" barrel checks off most all of the boxes.

    Dave

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    At 61 I have never owned an Ar , until now , and now I own two . I have changed my view on a bug out bag and gun and plan . I don't think there are too many places East of the Mississippi where you can isolate , if things go bad I am now of the view people will have to stand ground , and a 22 wont cut it . Like it or not the AR is the go to gun in the U.S.

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    reading thru this thread and there seems to be 2 or 3 scenarios or thoughts going on at once,


    are we talking go bags, like you have to vacate you home, or leave the vehicle etc to go home, (in the OP)

    or defend you castle(as in stay home and set it out)??
    (in some others)
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

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    Lyman , I would think for most people a little of all three scenarios . If I have to go it will be only 20 to 40 miles depending on where , if I have to get out of my car to walk home , I will have no problem getting an AR out of my trunk if things are that bad , and at some point if you have to go somewhere there will be no where else to go , and you will have to defend where ever your at .

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    Right Lyman good point, always count on two or three scenarios. I got the AR 556, 870 express tactical for home other bolt guns for guarding the castle. Deciding on what to take depends on how long your gonna have to leave and why. I do hike way out in the mountains a lot with the wife, worst case scenario there is a smaller black bear or mountain lion.

    So first gun I ever got was an Ithaca over under .22/ .410. I think that why I like that savage with .22 mag/410ga is gonna be the perfect true survival gun. Get all range of shot for the .410, slugs or full on five 000 buckshot pellets! hehe I can carry my Blackhawk .357 on my cowboy set up. Need a lever gun in .357 for a set up like Big Coolee has and been looking at those too. Pricey and mostly sold out now. Sold two 30-30 lever guns and never got another.

    As far as shot placement, we all have heard about the lady in Alaska who took down a grizzly with the .22 - well places head shots in the temple right? Here's a neat .410 boot gun and a pic of the range out here.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The Range.jpg  

    the range 1.jpg  

    Last edited by Estaban; 06-30-2020 at 10:54 AM.
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    well there is a big difference between death wish and survival

    what your plan is, bug out or stay, depends on which is survivable

    planning on a fire fight will just get you killed sooner or later, if your in a situation where a fire fight is honestly a real possibility, you need to start thinking of changing the circumstance rather than your arsenal.

    One person is not going to win a fire fight against a determined group of thieves, or whatever you choose to call them, a gang, and anybody that sets out to raid and steal is going to have to be smart enough to put together a team of some sort if they want to be successful.

    You have to eat so you have to plan for that.. if you plan to fight or see that as a real probability, and you want to survive, you need to do what you can to reduce the likelihood and if you can't do that you need a bigger team.. if you aren't working on a trusted mutual aid association on folks that are situated to support you and you them.. then you are just planning on how you and/or loved ones are going to die ( the good guys lost at the Alamo, and they died for a great cause) , you secret stashed mini-gun not with standing.

    Unless you plan on dying for the best of reasons, you need to rework your plans to find a way to survive, not die putting up a totally noble and heroic last stand.

    I have a small compound in a very small housing area , with an extra house for some friends coming from town , maybe coming from farther away, it will depend.. we have had several disasters here already mostly tornadoes some outages and lack of gas for over a week.. I always help the neighbors, they know me, we've talked prepping and planning, ones a minister that will probably have some folks coming to his place for shelter .. over half the dozen+ houses/ families here formally plan to stick together, other don't have plans, but routinely help and get help from neighbors in the little somewhat isolated little housing area , so those that plan are in on the plan and those that don't, know several, and are know by several, that know the plan, without preaching shtf and Armageddon. there is more to it of course.. but the plan is to survive.

    when I talk weapons, I'm strictly speaking what firearms I have that can bring home the bacon and keep the kids fed

    if you are talkin you against the world, you need a better plan, or air support and preregistered artillery .
    Three People to never believe

    A Religious Leader who tells you how to Vote

    A Politician who tells you how to Pray

    And

    A Draft Dodger who tells you how to be a Patriot

    And Smiling Bob

    Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason toward my country.”
    — PATRICK HENRY

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    One of the best survival rifles I have encountered and used is the AR-7. It is compact, lightweight, reliable, and not very expensive. .22 will take game including birds and can be used for defense as well.


    https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p...hnryssrvvl2rif

    They are getting hard to find but in looking around I was able to find some available with the price ranging from 229.00 to 300.00. Extra magazines are available as are high capacity magazines.

    https://www.buymymags.com/charter-ar...15rd-magazine/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Coulee View Post
    plonker ---- Thanks for your comment concerning "bullet placement" and "Mo Power". Yes I'm aware that bullet placement is an all important factor when taking down a critter. However here in my immediate area there are several critters "bigger than Rabbits" such as 300 pound black bears and 800 + pound grizzles. A .22RF HP can't do much against such a beast, especially when it could be on a guy's / gal's porch. That isn't a rare occurrence in these parts. Such critters come down out of Glacier National Park (not many miles distance from my front door) on their circuit through our neck of the woods. Just today a neighbor of mine told me his dog was having a real fit. The neighbor looked out his window at a fairly large black bear within 50 yds. of his front door. The bear sniffed around for a few minutes and wandered off into the woods. The dog's barking caused the bear to wander away.
    I'm not saying I'd attempt to take such an animal out with a hot loaded .45 Colt round. I have much bigger pieces for such occurrences if necessary. But for deer and possibly an occasional elk within 100 yds. I believe my warm .45 Colt reloads would suffice. The .45 Colt would be intended for putting meat on my table. Thanks again for your remarks.
    I never suggested hunting a bear with a .22, I was replying to the OP who thinks .22RF is under caliber for a rabbit. Based on that I have no idea about the relevance of your post about 800 Lb creatures. I wouldn't use a .22 for your scenario either. but I would council the OP about hitting things in a non-vital area & them not dropping instantly.
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  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidsog View Post
    One of the best survival rifles I have encountered and used is the AR-7. It is compact, lightweight, reliable, and not very expensive. .22 will take game including birds and can be used for defense as well.


    https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p...hnryssrvvl2rif

    They are getting hard to find but in looking around I was able to find some available with the price ranging from 229.00 to 300.00. Extra magazines are available as are high capacity magazines.

    https://www.buymymags.com/charter-ar...15rd-magazine/
    Yes! Seen that one in the links I supplied above. Would be good for the wifes backpack. Good back up gun.

    She's a better hiker than me, ten years younger. We've hiked the rockies to Peru, 14,000 ft to desert.

    If you look at the pic of the range. Out here we have what you call sky islands. Desert valleys to alpine areas, 3000 ft to 10,000 ft mostly down south. Northern AZ is pretty much lots of forest. Lots of javelina and white tail and some big horn sheep down south with a few scatter mule deer. Up north elk to large brown and black bears mountain lions rivers and lakes with fish.

    This guy came down just the other day from the mountain for a drink due to fires.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails muley.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by plonker View Post
    I never suggested hunting a bear with a .22, I was replying to the OP who thinks .22RF is under caliber for a rabbit. Based on that I have no idea about the relevance of your post about 800 Lb creatures. I wouldn't use a .22 for your scenario either. but I would council the OP about hitting things in a non-vital area & them not dropping instantly.
    I just mentioned the grizzly for chit chat.

    I'd like something better than just .22 have a few as I said and hunted squirrel and bunnies for ever. Even with granpa's Stevens Little scout (only shoots shorts). Which actually was my very first rifle. First one I bought was the Ithaca over under.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails scout 2.jpg  

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    I was just reading the new gun owner doesn't know their elbow from their ankle thread.

    same thing holds for armed self defense, the only difference being , it isn't about the guns, it's about small unit tactics .. Even IDPA champions are still one on one. facing off against a group that knows what they are doing the danger to the lone gunman increases on a logarithmic scale 2 people are not twice the threat , the threat is now 4 times worse 3 is nine times worse etc.

    but the reverse is also true.. without training multiple people are a greater hazard to themselves, trained and coordinated they are exponentially a great threat to the target.

    just saying
    Three People to never believe

    A Religious Leader who tells you how to Vote

    A Politician who tells you how to Pray

    And

    A Draft Dodger who tells you how to be a Patriot

    And Smiling Bob

    Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason toward my country.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    I was just reading the new gun owner doesn't know their elbow from their ankle thread.

    same thing holds for armed self defense, the only difference being , it isn't about the guns, it's about small unit tactics .. Even IDPA champions are still one on one. facing off against a group that knows what they are doing the danger to the lone gunman increases on a logarithmic scale 2 people are not twice the threat , the threat is now 4 times worse 3 is nine times worse etc.

    but the reverse is also true.. without training multiple people are a greater hazard to themselves, trained and coordinated they are exponentially a great threat to the target.

    just saying
    I think you posted to the wrong thread. See New Gun Owner
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  26. #25
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    Nope, posted it here for a reason.. it's not so much about what gun you choose if the issue is defending yourself post SHTF, it more about how you organize your defenses over all , if you are going to go into a point defense to protect your cheese and daughters , you need to realize there are certain concepts of offense and defense tactically that don't just fall out of the sky, but they can be learned , and they all hinge on having a certain number of people, so that you can actually use tactics .. pretty certain successful bad guys will figure out pretty fast to use numbers to get your cheese , and if you are trying to do it alone you are rotten limburger .

    biggest mistake you can make is restricting the threat you prepare for to only what you can handle alone... when everything says you will be facing organized or semi organized groups of marauders.

    the lone sniper, even in the best of times is just a delaying tactic, it is not a defensive tactic.. any delaying tactic implies you are delaying for a reason.. like reinforcements.. it won't save your home or cheese from capture or destruction.
    Last edited by AmmoSgt; 06-28-2020 at 03:31 PM.
    Three People to never believe

    A Religious Leader who tells you how to Vote

    A Politician who tells you how to Pray

    And

    A Draft Dodger who tells you how to be a Patriot

    And Smiling Bob

    Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason toward my country.”
    — PATRICK HENRY

    https://orders.stansberryresearch.co...T137955&page=1

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    Estaban ---- I agree a .357 caliber lever gun would be an excellent survival piece for a small statured person like a youngster of smaller woman. I have a Rossi Mod. 92 in .357 that is a pleasant little carbine to shoot even with fairly hot .357 loads and about like shooting a .22 with .38 Specials in the tube. I've had this little number for nearly 40 years, long before I picked up the Marlin in .45 Colt. I've even taken eastern Montana mule deer with the Rossi using fairly warm hand loaded ammo with 180 grain bullets. I've shot these loads very sparingly through the Rossi and sure wouldn't make a steady diet of them. But with hand loads duplicating factory .357 ammo the Rossi is well capable of taking small to medium game with one shot kills and doesn't stress anything. If you can find a .357 in a Marlin or Rossi for use as a survivor's weapon you sure can't go wrong with it for yourself or a small statured family member.

  28. #27
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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	3679929 Push button on stock..pistol grip only stock..fits into back pack!
    slugs, to buck shot..and my AR 7 1/2 inch pistol..
    out the door..9mm on hip,
    "Christ’s Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DisasterDog View Post
    Ammo, good tip on the .303 -> .32 adapter, I had not considered that!

    I wanted to throw the M1 Carbine out there, quite versatile. I mean, it was designed as a bridge between handgun & rifle.... just sayin.
    If you reload you can load "00" buck (single pellets) over about 15Gr of something like Unique or Bullseye with a fiber filler you don't need them.
    “Americans talk a lot about the value of freedom, but are actually afraid of anyone who truly exhibits it”.
    : Billy (The kid / Dennis Hopper).

  30. #29
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    Estaban --- The photo you provided showing a fairly wide open space that included the left side of your car looks much like the country in eastern Montana where I grew up on a wheat farm 26 miles from the nearest town. Where was your photo taken ? When I retired I would have liked to have settled out in that country but my wife told me she couldn't take the wind and all that empty space. So we found our retirement place here in western Montana where out-of-state folks are moving in at an alarming rate. Here our closest neighbor is not quite a mile away from us. I was fortunate enough a few years ago to talk an eastern Montana rancher into selling me 122 acres back out there in the "Big Open". That place is about 6 miles south of the Canadian border. I was able to buy a small house in a near by Montana ghost town by the name of Whitetail. My wife and I spend a couple weeks in the summer and a couple weeks during deer season there. Having been raised out in the Big Open I guess it's in my blood and will be until I draw my last breath. After I draw my last breath that is where I'd like to rest. You can still do that in Montana.

    I've set up a long range shooting spot on that acreage where I'm able to make shots up to 1000 yds. Most of my shooting is limited to around 5 to 600 yds at metallic targets, mostly shot up old propane bottles.

  31. #30
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    have Enfield mkV for big game
    A trials rifle? What a waste.
    “Americans talk a lot about the value of freedom, but are actually afraid of anyone who truly exhibits it”.
    : Billy (The kid / Dennis Hopper).

  32. #31
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    I agree with that. I realized long ago that prepping for TEOTWAWKI, "The Big One," is a fantasy. At best you come out at medieval serf level existence.

    OTOH, there are are many "medium ones" that could happen - we're experiencing a mild one right now.

    I'll use a Nicholas Taleb device to describe my general approach to those: Make yourself "anti-fragile." You don't have to live in the American redoubt, but the further from the center the better. You don't have to become a post-modern dirt-farmer, but you may feel hugely lucky to be able to lock-down and live on stores for some months. Civil order may not collapse, but cooperating and coordinating with the neighbors is common sense, especially when uncertainty and danger are in the air. And so on.

    Think about how you will avoid being trucked to an evacuation center because the natural gas temporarily failed during a "polar vortex," and the food trucks stopped making it into the cities then. Etcetera etcetera etcetera.


    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    well there is a big difference between death wish and survival

    what your plan is, bug out or stay, depends on which is survivable

    planning on a fire fight will just get you killed sooner or later, if your in a situation where a fire fight is honestly a real possibility, you need to start thinking of changing the circumstance rather than your arsenal.

    One person is not going to win a fire fight against a determined group of thieves, or whatever you choose to call them, a gang, and anybody that sets out to raid and steal is going to have to be smart enough to put together a team of some sort if they want to be successful.

    You have to eat so you have to plan for that.. if you plan to fight or see that as a real probability, and you want to survive, you need to do what you can to reduce the likelihood and if you can't do that you need a bigger team.. if you aren't working on a trusted mutual aid association on folks that are situated to support you and you them.. then you are just planning on how you and/or loved ones are going to die ( the good guys lost at the Alamo, and they died for a great cause) , you secret stashed mini-gun not with standing.

    Unless you plan on dying for the best of reasons, you need to rework your plans to find a way to survive, not die putting up a totally noble and heroic last stand.

    I have a small compound in a very small housing area , with an extra house for some friends coming from town , maybe coming from farther away, it will depend.. we have had several disasters here already mostly tornadoes some outages and lack of gas for over a week.. I always help the neighbors, they know me, we've talked prepping and planning, ones a minister that will probably have some folks coming to his place for shelter .. over half the dozen+ houses/ families here formally plan to stick together, other don't have plans, but routinely help and get help from neighbors in the little somewhat isolated little housing area , so those that plan are in on the plan and those that don't, know several, and are know by several, that know the plan, without preaching shtf and Armageddon. there is more to it of course.. but the plan is to survive.

    when I talk weapons, I'm strictly speaking what firearms I have that can bring home the bacon and keep the kids fed

    if you are talkin you against the world, you need a better plan, or air support and preregistered artillery .

  33. #32
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    Look towardS Yugoslavia..it once was modernization at its best in there history..cities, streets, tourism..
    now 14 miles of paved road...( 15 years back)

    an national unwinding would have many differentiations ...coast to coast, border to border.

    first Many common supportive services Become Segmented, irregularities start, stop become pending...local, then national!
    without a doubt the impacts will be confused as much as this virus...
    denials and maybes to activities directed to protect govt. processes slow to nothing..

    attent turned to as now rioting..as major problems not starvation, services, medical, SSI, retirements are unenforceable Untouchable at the present time..?

    the each unserviced sectors begin to organize out of disparity's...as in the present anarchy..
    only now opposing forces Across country are divided!
    those that have the fire power to self distancIng intruders, for months, maybe years.
    with all the guns, ammo bought up in 30+ years out of fearS,
    now take I gotta it’s place in the new order of things...called self preservation!
    "Christ’s Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

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    I've always liked the idea of a pistol and carbine in the same caliber. Using the same magazines is a bonus. One of these days I may take off and travel the country in a small camper van (extended vacation rather than bug-out) and if I do I plan to bring a .357 caliber lever action carbine. This is a firearm type that is allowed everywhere, as far as I know, without having to worry about crossing state laws, and I think I would be better off with a pistol caliber lever action carbine than with a shotgun. Just my .02 cents.
    Regards, Alan K.
    Available for Cabinet level positions, consultation on matters of foreign policy, weddings and bar-mitzvahs. Will work for gold or guns.

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    If strictly talking about survival, I will pick my TPS arms M6. It's in .22 WMR(.22 mag), over .410. The .22 mag is a good little round. I wanted a round that has a little more energy at 100 yards than a .22LR. The .22 mag can take small game, and using a solid round can take deer at close range if a head shot is used. It can also be used for self defense.

    The .410 barrel is useful for small game, whether on the ground or on the wing. Plus it too can be used to take deer sized game using buckshot or slugs. It can also be used for self defense.

    I can pack a large amount of ammunition for this little gun, and it doesn't take up a ton of room. Plus the gun itself can be broken down and placed into a pack or bug out bag easily.

    I just read on TPSs website recently, they now offer their M6 in .22LR, OR .22 mag over .410, 17 HMR over .410, .22 hornet over .410, .357 mag over .410, and .410 over .410. Many choices. If you've always wanted an M6 scout but don't want to pay. $700 plus for a used one, look into the TPS Arms M6. I got mine last year for $489.00 plus tax. These guns are brand new American made close copies of the original but have some improvements. These are very well made guns and not some POS copy.
    Last edited by Sidney Smith; 06-29-2020 at 07:35 AM.

  36. #35
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    At my age I have many already set up sighted in rifles,..l

    im best with two rifles..300mag...husquvarnas bolt gun...
    Swarovski scope..I know I can’t do as I once put one inside three 225 yards!
    the other Carl gustaf double triggers, pecar with ziess glass..6x 42 fixed...

    if I was lone minute sniper..with confidence..
    400 yards distances could be reached on man size targets or deer, bear, elk..
    or engine blocks, transformers, power stations..?
    "Christ’s Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

  37. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rberrey View Post
    Lyman , I would think for most people a little of all three scenarios . If I have to go it will be only 20 to 40 miles depending on where , if I have to get out of my car to walk home , I will have no problem getting an AR out of my trunk if things are that bad , and at some point if you have to go somewhere there will be no where else to go , and you will have to defend where ever your at .
    I'll admit, since the times have gotten a bit silly lately, I have an AR in the trunk


    but starting to rethink that, may switch it out to the Mini 14 or a shotgun (riot type) to be less conspicuous,

    don;t want to be a target due to what I am carrying,
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

  38. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    Right Lyman good point, always count on two or three scenarios. I got the AR 556, 870 express tactical for home other bolt guns for guarding the castle. Deciding on what to take depends on how long your gonna have to leave and why. I do hike way out in the mountains a lot with the wife, worst case scenario there is a smaller black bear or mountain lion.

    So first gun I ever got was an Ithaca over under .22/ .410. I think that why I like that savage with .22 mag/410ga is gonna be the perfect true survival gun. Get all range of shot for the .410, slugs or full on five 000 buckshot pellets! hehe I can carry my Blackhawk .357 on my cowboy set up. Need a lever gun in .357 for a set up like Big Coolee has and been looking at those too. Pricey and mostly sold out now. Sold two 30-30 lever guns and never got another.

    As far as shot placement, we all have heard about the lady in Alaska who took down a grizzly with the .22 - well places head shots in the temple right? Here's a neat .410 boot gun and a pic of the range out here.
    hope you have a stamp for that snake charmer
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

  39. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by plonker View Post
    A trials rifle? What a waste.
    hopefully she meant No 5, and if not , hopefully the Mk 5 is unaltered
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

  40. #39
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    Elmer --- I agree with your idea of a pistol caliber lever action carbine in .357, as I mentioned in my comment #26. If you had a serious need for the carbine, a warm .357 round could be used in it or if you only needed a mild load for small game or plinking a .38 Special round would be ideal. I like my Rossi Mod. 92 since it is light weight, has a very smooth action, holds 10 rounds, loads very easily and is an almost exact copy of the classic Winchester Mod. 92 carbine at less than half the cost of a Winchester. I bought mine in 1974 and it has been one of my favorite carry guns ever since. You would be very pleased with a Rossi .

  41. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by plonker View Post
    A trials rifle? What a waste.
    My bad a No.5 as much as I dislike the term for clarity a Jungle Carbine and it was modified ( hacked) when I got it. Sheese
    Three People to never believe

    A Religious Leader who tells you how to Vote

    A Politician who tells you how to Pray

    And

    A Draft Dodger who tells you how to be a Patriot

    And Smiling Bob

    Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason toward my country.”
    — PATRICK HENRY

    https://orders.stansberryresearch.co...T137955&page=1

  42. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DK PHILLIPS View Post
    Look towardS Yugoslavia..it once was modernization at its best in there history..cities, streets, tourism..
    now 14 miles of paved road...( 15 years back)

    an national unwinding would have many differentiations ...coast to coast, border to border.

    first Many common supportive services Become Segmented, irregularities start, stop become pending...local, then national!
    without a doubt the impacts will be confused as much as this virus...
    denials and maybes to activities directed to protect govt. processes slow to nothing..

    attent turned to as now rioting..as major problems not starvation, services, medical, SSI, retirements are unenforceable Untouchable at the present time..?

    the each unserviced sectors begin to organize out of disparity's...as in the present anarchy..
    only now opposing forces Across country are divided!
    those that have the fire power to self distancIng intruders, for months, maybe years.
    with all the guns, ammo bought up in 30+ years out of fearS,
    now take I gotta it’s place in the new order of things...called self preservation!
    yeah, but Yugoslavia got in to full scale ethnic cleansing and extermination on both religious and ethnic groups if that ever started here, America ( of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution ideals) would already be gone.
    Three People to never believe

    A Religious Leader who tells you how to Vote

    A Politician who tells you how to Pray

    And

    A Draft Dodger who tells you how to be a Patriot

    And Smiling Bob

    Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason toward my country.”
    — PATRICK HENRY

    https://orders.stansberryresearch.co...T137955&page=1

  43. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by IamElmerJFudd View Post
    I've always liked the idea of a pistol and carbine in the same caliber. Using the same magazines is a bonus. One of these days I may take off and travel the country in a small camper van (extended vacation rather than bug-out) and if I do I plan to bring a .357 caliber lever action carbine. This is a firearm type that is allowed everywhere, as far as I know, without having to worry about crossing state laws, and I think I would be better off with a pistol caliber lever action carbine than with a shotgun. Just my .02 cents.
    Interesting, you going for a single caliber philosophy, while I am looking at maximum diversity of caliber.

    Tell you another gun I picked up .. got me a little ( and I do mean little) Tarus 327 mag ( can shoot several 32's long short H&R mag) don't use it much but almost always take it to the range when I go, and put a dozen rounds thru it or so, got it mostly for the multi caliber capability, but never really exploited that ... So many guns, so little time
    Three People to never believe

    A Religious Leader who tells you how to Vote

    A Politician who tells you how to Pray

    And

    A Draft Dodger who tells you how to be a Patriot

    And Smiling Bob

    Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason toward my country.”
    — PATRICK HENRY

    https://orders.stansberryresearch.co...T137955&page=1

  44. #43
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    There is no ideal,but close to it,for me anyway,would be a good .22 magnum rifle.On the farm,I found it the most useful caliber for general small game hunting etc and it will take larger animals at close range with a well placed shot.Its not to noisy and a box of 50 cartridges takes up little space and is not heavy.For a centerfire I also have the Rossi .357 lever and it would be hard to beat being so light and easy to carry,and again sufficient for close range hunting and foraging.....they are a really useful little carbine.

  45. #44
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    Estaban - BC is not the only one to liken your country to his birth place - it also resembles a fair swag of the semi-arid parts in Australia.

  46. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    My bad a No.5 as much as I dislike the term for clarity a Jungle Carbine and it was modified ( hacked) when I got it. Sheese
    Nomenclature is important with Lee-Enfields, not because its picayune, but because the Number ~mark ~ star system can be misunderstood resulting in problems.
    For example theres a No1 Mk3, but theres also a No3 Mk1, & parts aren't interchangeable.
    There's also a no 5 Mk1 & a No1 Mk5!

    I know it sounds like nit picking, but only to the uninitiated.
    No1 MkIII:
    https://www.apexgunparts.com/rifles/...d-1-mkiii.html

    No3 Mk1 (Pat 14):
    Its not even an Enfield action or barrel its a Mauser copy. No interchangeable parts not even magazines!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_1914_Enfield

    Rifle No5 Mk1 ("Jungle Carbine")
    https://www.fieldandstream.com/lee-e...ungle-carbine/

    Rifle, no1 mk5
    (A totally different kettle of fish, with a vastly different value!).
    https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/...no-1-mk-v.html
    “Americans talk a lot about the value of freedom, but are actually afraid of anyone who truly exhibits it”.
    : Billy (The kid / Dennis Hopper).

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