Re-thinking my Survival Rifle/Caliber - Page 4
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Thread: Re-thinking my Survival Rifle/Caliber

  1. #136
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    When I delete a post or any portion of a post it is inappropriate to bring it up again in the forum. Next time send a Private Message.
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  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Coulee View Post
    Estaban ---- If you are looking for a lever gun that has a shorter barrel and packs about the same punch as the .32 Win. shown above, you could consider the Mod. '94 Win. in 30-30. 30-30 ammo is much easier to find than .32 if you might be looking for commercial ammo. My first center fire gun was a Mod. 94 Win. in 30-30 that I bought in 1952. I've taken several Whitetail and eastern Montana Mule deer with it and now my son has it. He and his wife have taken several deer with that very handy little rifle as well. The serial number of my .30-30 is 1,800,xxx. The Winchester Repeating Arms Co. presented serial number 2,000,000 to President Eisenhower in 1954 I believe. You can't go wrong with a .30-30.
    I know, I had two winchesters in 30-30. One ole plain jane and a centennial octagonal Looooong barrel. But if that happens again it's gonna be a .357
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  3. #138
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    Estaban --- You can't go wrong with a .357 in a lever gun. If you can find a Rossi at a decent price (under $600) grab it. It will last you the rest of your life if it is well taken care of.

  4. #139
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    Well, I'm sold. I'll definitely be on the look out for a .357 lever gun in my future wanderings.
    Regards, Alan K.
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  5. #140
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    While we're talking 30-30 and .357 here's a good article to read. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/le...vs-357-magnum/
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  6. #141
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    Have I missed something? What is the big interest in lever guns? Definitely not my first choice in survival or self defense.

  7. #142
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    They (.357 lever guns) give you a short and handy size with a reasonable capacity, in a reasonable caliber that is available everywhere, and won't get you into trouble by accident the way some semi-autos might.
    Regards, Alan K.
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  8. #143
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    Elmer is so RIGHT. And besides that the empty brass can be easily retrieved for reloading after ejecting from the lever gun. Most semi autos can throw the empty brass several feet. In grass / weeds that are more than 4" tall, the brass ejected from a semi auto is pretty much history. At least that has been my problem after burning powder with my semi autos.

  9. #144
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    I use those little strap on basket type brass catchers at the range .. I'm lazy saves a lot of stooping for my old decrepit back and knees
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  10. #145
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    I guess its whatever you like, but for me, I'll pass on the lever gun save for use as a hunting weapon.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidney Smith View Post
    I guess its whatever you like, but for me, I'll pass on the lever gun save for use as a hunting weapon.


    that is the point,



    walking down the road, thru the woods, or down an alley etc etc and with an AR in your hand or slung up and you look like either a tacticool dude or trouble,



    John Doe walking about with a backpack and what looks like at a distance, Grandpa's ole 3030 may get a pass
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

  12. #147
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    The main advantage to a lever or pump action rifle is that follow up shots are quicker, because you dont have to dismount the rifle from the shoulder to reload the action, and reacquire the sights and target for another shot.
    Follow up shots are fast and its not a semi auto.
    Pistol sized cartridge arms also offer larger magazine capacity forth the same size tube as a full sized rifle cartridge.

  13. #148
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    Lyman ---- Very true. In my case it's not "Grandpa's ole 3030" it is now Great Grandpa's ole 3030. That neat little Win. Mod. '94 shoots as good as it did in June 1952 and the great grandkids want it.

  14. #149
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    More I think about it..common cals, mags..
    pairEd..AR 7 1/2 inch pistol, green laser
    long distance org. AR bushmaster Varminter, 3 x 15x 56 german optics.24 inch barrel.
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  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyman1903 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sidney Smith View Post
    I guess its whatever you like, but for me, I'll pass on the lever gun save for use as a hunting weapon.


    that is the point,



    walking down the road, thru the woods, or down an alley etc etc and with an AR in your hand or slung up and you look like either a tacticool dude or trouble,



    John Doe walking about with a backpack and what looks like at a distance, Grandpa's ole 3030 may get a pass
    I think if it gets to the point of bugging out, the only real concern is WHETHER you have a firearm or not. The type is going to be of lesser concern. The man walking down the road obviously armed with something is probably going to be safer than the potentially unarmed man who may be viewed as a potential mark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyman1903 View Post
    that is the point,



    walking down the road, thru the woods, or down an alley etc etc and with an AR in your hand or slung up and you look like either a tacticool dude or trouble,



    John Doe walking about with a backpack and what looks like at a distance, Grandpa's ole 3030 may get a pass
    A point to ponder taken from combat experience.

    A very high casualty rate was noted in the service support units and specifically the truck drivers getting attacked on logistical runs. We were asked to help out, investigate the problem, and find a solution. Long story short, we found out the reason we could go down a road and not get attacked in the same truck on the same route was due to our demeanor.

    The Service Support soldiers were not trained very well for combat operations and their demeanor reflected that. The guns were not manned or maintained properly and they often traveled down the road locked up inside of the cab with the heater or ac running, sleeping, eating, and doing anything but projecting a wiliness to fight.

    We on the other hand traveled the same roads guns out, alert, and spoiling for a fight. We never got attacked as the enemy would by-pass us looking for an easier target. Once the Service and Support units adopted the same demeanor, their casualty rate plummeted to almost nothing and the attacks decreased.

    I cannot stand the tacti-cool idiots and someone who is trained can spot a poser quite easily. That is another conversation.

    I can say that you walking with a fighting firearm in the ready position, alert, and looking like you are capable as well as willing to fight can go a long way towards avoiding one in the first place.

  17. #152
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    In my experience lever guns don't jam up as much as a semi. Get more rounds with a pistol round than a 30-30 cartridge as mentioned above. Can't really pack around a Ruger Precision rifle. I don't see long range stand offs going on to much either. Course the sniper can always be out there. Which is why ya either gotta make up your mind to stay in place or bug out. Depends on circumstances.
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  18. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    In my experience lever guns don't jam up as much as a semi. Get more rounds with a pistol round than a 30-30 cartridge as mentioned above. Can't really pack around a Ruger Precision rifle. I don't see long range stand offs going on to much either. Course the sniper can always be out there. Which is why ya either gotta make up your mind to stay in place or bug out. Depends on circumstances.
    I do not think they are as reliable as they are perceived. No military has used them in widespread service for almost one hundred years because of the fact they are unreliable, inaccurate, and fragile compared to other options. They are also difficult to load and operate from the prone position.

  19. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidsog View Post
    I do not think they are as reliable as they are perceived. No military has used them in widespread service for almost one hundred years because of the fact they are unreliable, inaccurate, and fragile compared to other options. They are also difficult to load and operate from the prone position.
    I bet I could load a side gate as fast as a mag. Plus practically zero recoil with pistol ammo.
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  20. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    I bet I could load a side gate as fast as a mag. Plus practically zero recoil with pistol ammo.
    I have not doubt you can do that for at least one bullet and it is no different than most shotguns. Keep it topped off as you go is the best solution.

    "unreliable, inaccurate, and fragile" is not my conclusion but simply a fact as to why Lever Guns were phased out for general military use by most Armies in the late 19th and 20th Century.

    The shooter is much more important than the weapon and what you choose is your decision.

    I can say that you walking with a fighting firearm in the ready position, alert, and looking like you are capable as well as willing to fight can go a long way towards avoiding one in the first place.

  21. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    In my experience lever guns don't jam up as much as a semi. Get more rounds with a pistol round than a 30-30 cartridge as mentioned above. Can't really pack around a Ruger Precision rifle. I don't see long range stand offs going on to much either. Course the sniper can always be out there. Which is why ya either gotta make up your mind to stay in place or bug out. Depends on circumstances.
    The problem with a lever gun as I see it, is not so much whether it runs better than a semi auto, which it doesn't IMO. It's in the reload. You may be able to hold a decent amount of ammunition within its tube magazine, but that magazine is also the lever guns Achilles heel. Once that AR15 is empty, it's a simple process to reload. If you run out of ammo in a firefight with the lever gun, you're a dead man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidney Smith View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    In my experience lever guns don't jam up as much as a semi. Get more rounds with a pistol round than a 30-30 cartridge as mentioned above. Can't really pack around a Ruger Precision rifle. I don't see long range stand offs going on to much either. Course the sniper can always be out there. Which is why ya either gotta make up your mind to stay in place or bug out. Depends on circumstances.
    The problem with a lever gun as I see it, is not so much whether it runs better than a semi auto, which it doesn't IMO. It's in the reload. You may be able to hold a decent amount of ammunition within its tube magazine, but that magazine is also the lever guns Achilles heel. Once that AR15 is empty, it's a simple process to reload. If you run out of ammo in a firefight with the lever gun, you're a dead man.
    I beg to differ I've watched those cowboy movies them old lever guns never run dry

  23. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostinspace View Post
    I beg to differ I've watched those cowboy movies them old lever guns never run dry
    Haha, yup seems no ones ever seen a John Wayne movie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostinspace View Post
    I beg to differ I've watched those cowboy movies them old lever guns never run dry
    I looked on Gunbroker for years trying to find one of those Hollywood infinity guns. It would have been nice to see the Army adopt them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    Haha, yup seems no ones ever seen a John Wayne movie.

    That is good especially if you can walk around with your cartridges between your fingers, LOL. Notice the only portion of the course he was required to do any sort of reload...the rifle was handicapped.

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    The biggest factor Estaban is you and what you want. The shooter is much more important the weapon.

    There is a huge difference between this gentleman's lever action skills:




    This Gentleman:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXEQdhMDDPg

    And this Gentleman's skills in terms of combat capability:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds3zqUCduTM

  27. #162
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    Like I said, never had an issue with my lever guns. Don't need no forward assist on a lever gun.
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    [QUOTE=Estaban;10363863never had an issue with my lever guns. Don't need no forward assist on a lever gun.[/QUOTE]

    The forward assist on an AR is like a human appendix. It's something you have but don't ever need.

  29. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    Like I said, never had an issue with my lever guns. Don't need no forward assist on a lever gun.
    the lever would be the forward assist
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidney Smith View Post
    The forward assist on an AR is like a human appendix. It's something you have but don't ever need.
    It was pretty useful for doing a "press check" at Stand Too, ORP, or the LCC!

  31. #166
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    If I have the option to own and carry a semi auto, I'm gonna be found with an M-1A in my hands.

    If I dont have that option, due to laws, (California comes to mind) finances, or circumstance, Im more a bolt kinda guy, and a pump action would be a choice over a lever action due to the carryability (levers dig on you when your riding an ATV or snowgo) with a sling, and carry is something you do alot more than shoot.
    Ive never had any reliability problems with either a pump or a lever action, and neither were frail, the downfalls I found were slow reloads and awkward working the action while trying to stay in cover and concealed.

  32. #167
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    As I've said, for a meat gathering weapon, a lever gun is fine. For a self defense weapon, IMO it's not so good. Well, it's better than nothing until you run out of ammo. Then you'd better have good cover to reload, or a friend who can cover you while you take the time to reload.

    If its a SHTF scenario, my first priority would be self defense then food gathering ability with the firearm.

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    Perhaps we should start a SHTF thread instead of a dedicated survival gun that folds up since this thread always wanders off topic.
    Coursee there's been a billion of Best gun for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    Perhaps we should start a SHTF thread instead of a dedicated survival gun that folds up since this thread always wanders off topic.
    Coursee there's been a billion of Best gun for that.
    In a survival situation I say think small. We all have visions of downing a big deer or moose or such but reality is small game squirrels rabbits birds and shall I say plants or frogs are going to keep you alive. It could be you might be better off with snares or traps, fishing rod? Depends on where you might think you are going to be you're environment

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostinspace View Post
    In a survival situation I say think small. We all have visions of downing a big deer or moose or such but reality is small game squirrels rabbits birds and shall I say plants or frogs are going to keep you alive. It could be you might be better off with snares or traps, fishing rod? Depends on where you might think you are going to be you're environment
    Exactly. Start out small and easy from stuff that requires little energy as possible to get.

    Funny story.

    One of exceptions to the rule came across a deer stuck in a fence during survival training. Big Idea decides to take his handy swiss army knife out and kill the deer. Of course when he stabbed that knife into the deer's neck to cut its throat the result was fear and adrenaline kicking in for this hapless buck. The buck then proceeded to bust the fence, free itself, and then see to its own self defense. It put that poor student in the hospital. No deer, no knife, multiple contusions, and some broken bones. Had this happened on a real world event, not only would the mission have no been compromised, the soldier would have been gravely injured with a good possibility of not surviving. The error in judgement on the part of the student caused him to be released from further training. A sad, hard way to go. Life is tough, It is tougher when you are stupid.

    Contrast that with another student who made some simple improvised fishing gear, caught 21 small fish and ~4lb catfish...And was eating his fill of tasty grilled fish cooked over a clandestine fire and greenstick grill.

    Big and Hard has it's purpose but in terms of survival; small and easy wins the day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostinspace View Post
    In a survival situation I say think small. We all have visions of downing a big deer or moose or such but reality is small game squirrels rabbits birds and shall I say plants or frogs are going to keep you alive. It could be you might be better off with snares or traps, fishing rod? Depends on where you might think you are going to be you're environment
    Yes, learn how to make a snare.
    I've had this little kit I take hiking all the time. Had it since "75 when I took a desert survival training course. I'ts got string, plastic, fish hooks, mirror, magnifying glass, water purification tabs etc.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails survival kit 1.jpg  

    survival kit 2.jpg  

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  37. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estaban View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lostinspace View Post
    In a survival situation I say think small. We all have visions of downing a big deer or moose or such but reality is small game squirrels rabbits birds and shall I say plants or frogs are going to keep you alive. It could be you might be better off with snares or traps, fishing rod? Depends on where you might think you are going to be you're environment
    Yes, learn how to make a snare.
    I've had this little kit I take hiking all the time. Had it since "75 when I took a desert survival training course. I'ts got string, plastic, fish hooks, mirror, magnifying glass, water purification tabs etc.
    Haha sorry I was conceived in 75 but not alive

  38. #173
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    Trapping is always superior to hunting.
    Less labor intensive & higher yield. Depending on trap type you might get a little breeding pen running which is even better.
    I'd rig ladder traps, snare traps & others reasonably close to "camp" & walk the line once or twice daily.
    If they caught something small or inedible, It'd be bait for a reset trap.

    Now I'm a big believer in being prepared so I'd have a .22 rifle for targets of opportunity.
    The .30 isn't for rabbit, its so I get to keep the rabbit I got with the 22.
    Different horses for different courses.
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    I think combining hunting, trapping, and fishing while in a survival scenario is the best way to go.

    If it were me, I'd set some snares that don't need my undivided attention, I'd lay out some passive fishing lines, or a net, then Id spend my time pursuing game to keep myself occupied. Id go for small game but wouldn't pass up a chance on large game as long as I knew my firearm were up to the task at tbe distance Is need to take the animal humanely.

  40. #175
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    if you are going to trap do it with pro grade gear https://www.fntpost.com/Categories/T...ension+Cables/

    think about it for a minute you got 4 pounds of muscle fighting for it's life wiggling bending chewing struggling on the end of you shoelace snare may I recommend https://www.fntpost.com/Categories/T...upplies/Cable/

    and all the other quality parts that can handle that.. they really ae too cheap to cobble some makeshift gonna break BS, when you can get a dozen professionally made snares for under $20

    also trapping isn't random so they have books that teach you how and where to set your traps by specie what works as bait .. you would be surprised burn wood works for near best for some critters https://www.fntpost.com/Categories/T...rapping+Books/

    you should never count on something you haven't actually done, they call it a skill set for a reason .. but be careful some places regulate trapping more than hunting and not all traps are legal everywhere .. we can't use regular snares in Alabama need power snares .. lot of places require deer stops

    carrying traps without practical working knowledge and experience are about as useful as a heart surgeons kit to fix a bad heart valve .

    can't use store bought traps straight out of the box animals can smell them miles away .. you need to dip and age them .. and you have to wash them after use to get the dead small off them they make stuff for that https://www.fntpost.com/Categories/T...Trap+Cleaners/
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  41. #176
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    on the end of you shoelace snare
    There you go again, wandering off into the stratosphere.
    Show me my shoelace snare?
    I wouldn't waste a perfectly fine shoelace on a snare even if you would.
    “Americans talk a lot about the value of freedom, but are actually afraid of anyone who truly exhibits it”.
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  42. #177
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    Box traps birds..I taught the grandgirl and boy...
    When elect went off..
    we put a string out window to a box trap, put out seeds.. snowing
    From a movie...( Shirley temple) the blue, snow bird?
    they were 5 and six years old!
    we caught birds...to eat if had too! I told them..
    Last edited by DK PHILLIPS; 07-08-2020 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Blue bird of Ph air dice
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    if you are going to trap
    One of the easiest and most effective traps anyone can do is wooden stake, tree, or appropriate anchor, a small length of fishing line with a very small hook with some corn for bait.

    You only need to carry a small can of corn, the line, and hooks are dual purpose from a fishing kit. The corn also doubles as easy fish bait.

    It is such an effective trap for birds and small animals that it is highly illegal in most states. So check your local laws and do not use it unless you are in a real survival situation.

  44. #179
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    In my youth, late 40's - early 50's, we used raisins rather than corn and worm baited night lines in the river.

  45. #180
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    Fishing/trapping kit is in the BOB. line floats hooks sinkers & galvanized steel wire.
    No shoelaces you note. But I have paracord.
    “Americans talk a lot about the value of freedom, but are actually afraid of anyone who truly exhibits it”.
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