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Thread: Chinese Type 54 @ RGuns

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryLeverBoy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by eli View Post
    Well, forget Taiwan - these guns came from Austria. 1400 of them in this shipment.
    Thanks for the info! Never figured out this batch came out of Austria. Wonder how many are still out there in Austria.
    I find it odd, though. I doubt these were 25+ years in Austria. I’m just piecing together the movement of the guns as freight, and I’m thinking there’s a route leading to Austria I haven’t found just yet.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by eli View Post
    I find it odd, though. I doubt these were 25+ years in Austria. I’m just piecing together the movement of the guns as freight, and I’m thinking there’s a route leading to Austria I haven’t found just yet.
    My local dealer friend and I were just talked about it after I saw your post. He told me that those Chinese SKS caming out from Albania also had Autrian exportation paper. If that's indeed the case, Austria may not be the port of origin but rather the last stop before reaching here.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by yexing1985 View Post
    Does this still consider C&R with various of manufacturing dates? Sorry it might sound a stupid question.....
    Have the same doubt myself. Those with 50's 60's year stamp are sure C&R eligible. Those don't have the year stamp, the Chinese didn't send document to ATF or importer to tell them when they were manufactured, and we are using assumed S/N decoding method to estimate manufacturing year being in the 70's and 80's. Importer and vendors can argue that they are coming with 50's 60's production in the same batch but just without year stamp, and there's no sure way to tell that they are not eligible.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryLeverBoy View Post
    Have the same doubt myself. Those with 50's 60's year stamp are sure C&R eligible. Those don't have the year stamp, the Chinese didn't send document to ATF or importer to tell them when they were manufactured, and we are using assumed S/N decoding method to estimate manufacturing year being in the 70's and 80's. Importer and vendors can argue that they are coming with 50's 60's production in the same batch but just without year stamp, and there's no sure way to tell that they are not eligible.
    Chinese Tokarev type 51 and 54 are on the ATF C&R list. Date is irrelevant in this case like EG Makarov, 59/66 SKS and even Soviet era SVD.

    https://www.atf.gov/file/128116/download

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    Quote Originally Posted by 81turbota View Post
    Chinese Tokarev type 51 and 54 are on the ATF C&R list. Date is irrelevant in this case like EG Makarov, 59/66 SKS and even Soviet era SVD.

    https://www.atf.gov/file/128116/download
    Thanks for the clarification! From the ATF link, there are following Chinese pistols
    Chinese Communist, types 51 and 54 (Tokarev) pistols, cal. 7.62mm.
    Chinese, Peoples Republic of China, copy of German Walther PPK, cal. .32 ACP w/Chineseproof marks, Type I and II.
    Chinese, Peoples Republic of China, copy of Japanese Type Sigiura Shiki semiautomatic pistol,cal. 7.65mm.
    Just recently learnt that the Chinese copy of PPK was designated as Type 52 in China. Don't know they also copied Japanese Type Sigiura Shiki pistol. Not familiar with the Japanese original one nor the Chinese copy of it. Just curious if anyone has ever seen these Chinese copy of PPK and Sigiura Shiki on the U.S. milsurp market.

  6. #96
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    A lot of the listed guns are extremely rare or unique pieces. Also a huge amount of the listed pieces are C&R already by the 50 year exemption.

    A Sigiura Shiki and Hamada Type 2 are $10,000+ pistols and pretty much only seen on the internet through pictures. I would be extremely surprised to see one in the wild, original or Chinese clone.

    As for the Type 52 and 64, If it doesn’t meet the exact wording of the C&R exemption, it’s not eligible unless it’s 50 years old. As far as seeing one, I haven’t either.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryLeverBoy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 81turbota View Post
    Chinese Tokarev type 51 and 54 are on the ATF C&R list. Date is irrelevant in this case like EG Makarov, 59/66 SKS and even Soviet era SVD.

    https://www.atf.gov/file/128116/download
    Thanks for the clarification! From the ATF link, there are following Chinese pistols
    Chinese Communist, types 51 and 54 (Tokarev) pistols, cal. 7.62mm.
    Chinese, Peoples Republic of China, copy of German Walther PPK, cal. .32 ACP w/Chineseproof marks, Type I and II.
    Chinese, Peoples Republic of China, copy of Japanese Type Sigiura Shiki semiautomatic pistol,cal. 7.65mm.
    Just recently learnt that the Chinese copy of PPK was designated as Type 52 in China. Don't know they also copied Japanese Type Sigiura Shiki pistol. Not familiar with the Japanese original one nor the Chinese copy of it. Just curious if anyone has ever seen these Chinese copy of PPK and Sigiura Shiki on the U.S. milsurp market.
    Also need to keep in mind that more than a few items on the C&R list are very specific and the result of very motivated individuals. That means there may be one of something, and it belongs to the person who did the diligence.

    Also...
    Though unfortunate that the US shut down Chinese imports in ‘94, we are in year 26 of that happening. So, relying on my TI-82 for some high level calculations- stuff out of China up to 1994 became eligible 2019. In 2018 Bob goes out sniffing for Chinese small arms inventories with no-newer-than-1994-dates and finds a bunch in Albania (hopefully elsewhere too). In 2019 Bob files paperwork with ATF/DHS/Donny and after 1 year everything is squared away, in come the Toks and we here rejoice.
    Shift the timeline back a bit for older stuff, like the SKS’, and that may 1) explain the uptick in Chinese arms, 2) anticipate a massive flood of Chinese milsurp driving prices back down to 1993 levels (yeah, no... but one can dream).

  8. #98
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    DO YOU NEED A TRIGGER?

    Got 10 yugo tokarev triggers ordered. My cost was $12.50, after shipping/bubble mailer the cost is $15.50 each. I'm keeping 2 and 2 are going to a friend. The other 6 are for anyone here who wants one. Sold at or under my cost.

    DO NOT PM ME(my inbox is full)
    Post an I'll take it with however many you want(limit of 2 per person)
    I'll then PM you. Price is $15.50 each no matter how many you get, again just doing this to help out.(I got a discount for ordering 10 so it's helping me out too!!)
    I'm extremely busy with work so it may take me a week to get your trigger out. Triggers should be here next week earlier in the week. Snail mailed first class. Paypal gift or check is fine.
    Jack of all milsurps, master of none.

  9. #99
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    Ill take 2
    pm me with details

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncreptile View Post
    DO YOU NEED A TRIGGER?

    Got 10 yugo tokarev triggers ordered. My cost was $12.50, after shipping/bubble mailer the cost is $15.50 each. I'm keeping 2 and 2 are going to a friend. The other 6 are for anyone here who wants one. Sold at or under my cost.

    DO NOT PM ME(my inbox is full)
    Post an I'll take it with however many you want(limit of 2 per person)
    I'll then PM you. Price is $15.50 each no matter how many you get, again just doing this to help out.(I got a discount for ordering 10 so it's helping me out too!!)
    I'm extremely busy with work so it may take me a week to get your trigger out. Triggers should be here next week earlier in the week. Snail mailed first class. Paypal gift or check is fine.
    I will take 2.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncreptile View Post
    DO YOU NEED A TRIGGER?

    Got 10 yugo tokarev triggers ordered. My cost was $12.50, after shipping/bubble mailer the cost is $15.50 each. I'm keeping 2 and 2 are going to a friend. The other 6 are for anyone here who wants one. Sold at or under my cost.

    DO NOT PM ME(my inbox is full)
    Post an I'll take it with however many you want(limit of 2 per person)
    I'll then PM you. Price is $15.50 each no matter how many you get, again just doing this to help out.(I got a discount for ordering 10 so it's helping me out too!!)
    I'm extremely busy with work so it may take me a week to get your trigger out. Triggers should be here next week earlier in the week. Snail mailed first class. Paypal gift or check is fine.

    I'll take 2 triggers. Thank you.
    co-author of The Makarov Pistol Soviet Union & East Germanyby Brown and White 2016
    co-author of The Makarov Pistol China, Bulgaria & Khyber Pass Copies by Brown, White & Lowe 2018

  12. #102
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    I'll take one.

  13. #103
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    All spoken for. Bigwagon I'll likely be able to get you one as well.

    Will PM you all tomorrow, currently packing up pistols to go out.

    Cheers
    Jack of all milsurps, master of none.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncreptile View Post
    All spoken for. Bigwagon I'll likely be able to get you one as well.

    Will PM you all tomorrow, currently packing up pistols to go out.

    Cheers
    Sweet thanks allot

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncreptile View Post
    All spoken for. Bigwagon I'll likely be able to get you one as well.

    Will PM you all tomorrow, currently packing up pistols to go out.

    Cheers
    Thank you very much!

  16. #106
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    Just found these on Rguns last night and ordered one. Never thought I'd see another import of Chinese pistols! The trigger safety thing is great. I just ordered a replacement Russian trigger from Ost Front. Sweet!
    "You mean to say you don't know me? I'm Antti Rokka. A farmer from the Isthmus. At the moment I sell bullets."

  17. #107
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    I placed a order from classic as I did not know rgun had them
    Mine are out for delivery

  18. #108
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  19. #109
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    ncreptile: If you get any more triggers, I’d like one pls. Thank you.

  20. #110
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    I will pick up my 2nd later today. Will report back what I get. My two century triggers also have shipped.

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    Picked up my Rguns type 54 a few hours ago. The frame, slide, and barrel match but the barrel bushing and hammer assembly do not. Magazine is un-numbered. Rear sight is backwards but it still shot dead on when I test fired it, I'll probably end up leaving as is. The m57 trigger I bought dropped right in.


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  22. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLitoris View Post
    Picked up my Rguns type 54 a few hours ago. The frame, slide, and barrel match but the barrel bushing and hammer assembly do not. Magazine is un-numbered. Rear sight is backwards but it still shot dead on when I test fired it, I'll probably end up leaving as is. The m57 trigger I bought dropped right in.
    Congratulation! Looking good!

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    Do you see them have chrommed bores?

  24. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by dersulzola76 View Post
    Do you see them have chrommed bores?
    Yes

  25. #115
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    Hope my Pistol looks that good. I ordered on Friday and still have no response from Rguns, I guess things are slow.
    HDH.

  26. #116
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    Talked to them yesterday. Salesman said they still have plenty of pistols but shipping is at least ten days behind.
    "You mean to say you don't know me? I'm Antti Rokka. A farmer from the Isthmus. At the moment I sell bullets."

  27. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike O View Post
    Talked to them yesterday. Salesman said they still have plenty of pistols but shipping is at least ten days behind.
    Mike:

    Did they mention how many they started out with or the number imported?
    Purists of the world, unite!

    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
    Samuel Adams

  28. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard in NY* View Post
    Mike:

    Did they mention how many they started out with or the number imported?
    No, I never thought to ask. I just asked if they would run out soon and he said they had plenty so don't worry.
    "You mean to say you don't know me? I'm Antti Rokka. A farmer from the Isthmus. At the moment I sell bullets."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard in NY* View Post
    Mike:

    Did they mention how many they started out with or the number imported?
    Post #86 from eli indicates "Well, forget Taiwan - these guns came from Austria. 1400 of them in this shipment."

  30. #120
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    Thanks.
    Purists of the world, unite!

    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
    Samuel Adams

  31. #121
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    I picked up two I got from classic. I missed that RGuns had them and had already ordered them. One of them is matched with no date. The other is a 1959 dated frame with mismatched slide. Both look to have been refinished over some light pitting. At least the import mark is discreet.

  32. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenKane View Post
    I picked up two I got from classic. I missed that RGuns had them and had already ordered them. One of them is matched with no date. The other is a 1959 dated frame with mismatched slide. Both look to have been refinished over some light pitting. At least the import mark is discreet.
    Are the ones from classic also with R Guns import mark or other importer's mark? Which factory is the one without date stamp?

  33. #123
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    R Guns imports.

    The one has no factory number or date. Just a serial number.

    I wish I’d have have ordered direct from R Guns, but that’s how it goes sometimes.

  34. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenKane View Post
    R Guns imports.

    The one has no factory number or date. Just a serial number.

    I wish Id have have ordered direct from R Guns, but thats how it goes sometimes.
    Interesting. The one without factory or date, what's the million series, 29 and above? If the serial number contains 9, 4 or 6, which font do they match with the ones in the photo, left or right? Also notice slight difference on the Chinese character's font too? Probably makes no difference where you order from, unless you go to R Guns store or your local dealer let you select one from a batch.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_7163.JPG  

    IMG_7164.JPG  

    IMG_7165.JPG  


  35. #125
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    While this batch was imported from Austria, the dealer there is just a middleman.

    I think most likely these came from the horn of Africa, likely Ethiopia. It's well documented that a huge amount of guns was sold to Ethiopia, Eritrea, Sudan, Somalia, etc, by the Chinese (and to a lesser extend the North Koreans) in the 1980's and afterwards, these arms fueled a lot of wars and conflicts, Darfur for one. These guns in this exact, refinished condition have been seen and found there.

    It's unlikely that these came from Albania in my opinion, they're too late for that (refinish, etc). It's also possible that they were sold by Israel before being imported from Austria

    Here is an example, Chinese Tokarevs, refinished just like these imported (note both the star and plain circle grips), captured from arms smugglers by Ethiopian security at the Somalia/Ethiopian border last year


  36. #126

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    Got it in, 03626 is the only number on slide and frame... Any ideas about age?

  37. #127
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    I have read before that most of the Military small arms from Europe are cleared for import by a firm in Austria that handles such shipments. I believe that most all of the stuff from the Balkans came through this dealer in Austria.

  38. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by howiebearse View Post
    I have read before that most of the Military small arms from Europe are cleared for import by a firm in Austria that handles such shipments. I believe that most all of the stuff from the Balkans came through this dealer in Austria.
    Given how deliberate some of the refurbishment on these T54s is, that’s where I’m leaning. For all we know, these were Chinese surplus Tok’s sitting in a warehouse in some province that made their way to the Balkans during the Yugo civil war. That’d align with the later mfg dates some of these have, as well as possibly explain a combination of older ones and T51s with PLA markings. And by deliberate refurbishment I mean the tiny red stripe on the extractor to show a loaded chamber. That’s such a Balkan thing to do LOL

  39. #129
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    Hoping to order a 3rd from classic soon, get a 60s dated one. Wonder if rguns would do that for me if I asked given it would be my 3rd from them....

  40. #130
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    I hope top find a 66 factory 1965 or 66 vintage I served in Vietnam at that time. anyone gets an extra let me know I contacted classic by email they said to check with the store late next week????

  41. #131
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    Why order from a middle man when Rguns will sell directly to the consumer?
    Jack of all milsurps, master of none.

  42. #132
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    Agreed,if you call Rguns and ask nicely they will do it for you. Dont bother with classic they are always swamped.

  43. #133
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    Received a RGuns Type 54 today dated 1967 factory 66.

    The RGuns Type 54 is only a few thousand digits off a Type 54 dated 1967 factory 66 VietNam bring back that I have. Find that interesting that the serial numbers are so close.

  44. #134
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    Ordered One from RGuns last Sunday and then put a second order for a mother on Wednesday. Friday RGuns called to make sure I wanted both guns and that I didn’t screw up. They told me it will take about 3 weeks but not to worry, they have plenty of guns to fill my order and that they won’t charge my card until they ship.

  45. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncreptile View Post
    Why order from a middle man when Rguns will sell directly to the consumer?
    The only reason I see Classic being viable is they will ship C&R to CA while Rguns won’t. It’s interesting to see Classic didn’t mark up the price other than a hand select option. Also interesting is Rguns denied your inquiry of dealer pricing. I’m sure Classic is getting some kind of high volume discount.

    If I had to have one in CA, I’d go Classic. Thankfully I don’t have to make that decision.

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