Cartridge identification
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Thread: Cartridge identification

  1. #1
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    Default Cartridge identification

    I know that is not a lot to go on, but it is all that has been passed onto me. The round in question is on the left in the one photo comparing it to the .50 cal on the right, To me it appears to be about 12 or 13mm in size but differently smaller than a 20mm round. There is no head stamp what so ever as seen in the other photo and has the three primer stakes. The gent who has these sent me the photos thinking it might be Japanese as he is used to seeing the three stakes on the Japanese rounds. Anything you all can provided will be appreciated.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_0908.jpeg  

    IMG_0907.jpeg  

    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
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  2. #2
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    I think I'd be a little careful.
    Isn't any round larger than .50 cal considered a "destructive devise" and in need of the proper class three paperwork?
    Just sayin'.....

  3. #3
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    Under 40mm you are fine what I was told, but maybe someone knows better?

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  5. #4
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    You can have 240mm rounds if you want as long as they don't have any explosive in them. The DD in this case is the explosive not the round. The only time you need be concerned is if you have the firearm that shoots the larger than 50 cal ammo. The 20mm solothurn rifle is a DD with or without ammo but the ammo is not a DD. Lots of collectors have lots of legal over 50 cal ammo.

    As for the original post its hard to tell. The Japanese did have a 13.2mm Hotchkiss machinegun and I have seen the triangular crimp on their ammo. On the other hand it isn't much bigger than the US 50 cal round. In fact the cartridge case is almost the same as the US 50 with a slightly bigger neck for the larger bullet. The round you have pictured there is more likely a 15mm or something of that sort. If its possible get a measurement of the bullet diameter as close to the case neck as you can. Also get an overall length of the cartridge and the length of the cartridge case itself. The rim looks a lot like a round intended for use in a machinegun but I can't ID it as is....
    The Japanese did get some 15mm ZB Machineguns from the Germans. They are a larger version of the ZB37 MG that the Germans and others used during WWII. I think it was the ZB60?

    Frank
    Ich hab den Reset-Knopf gedrückt
    Doch nichts ist passiert

  6. #5
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    It's a bit bigger than my area of interest, but it is definitely not a 13.2mm Japanese. It also does not look like a .60 or .50/60 MG. My first thought, beyond those previously mentioned, is a 15mm BESA round, but the lack of headstamp is puzzling. The long extractor groove is also odd and interesting.
    I agree with Frank on the need for a full set of measurements.
    Always looking for interesting 7.62x25 Tokarev and 7.63 Mauser cartridges!!!
    Member: International Ammunition Assoc. (IAA), European Cartridge Research Assoc. (ECRA). Ask me about membership!

  7. #6
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    11mm Madsen AA round.???
    BTW the primer crimps are NOT Japanese, more like Pre-War US on .50, or a European crimp.(petal type)
    German 13mm are belted, ZB 15mm larger Projectile, Not Japanese 13,2 X99 ( same case as 50 cal, only bigger Neck dia.)
    Nor Japanese 12,7x81 ( semi rimmed version of British Vickers .5" Mark I).
    Doc AV

  8. #7
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    you will find it here http://old.municion.org/

  9. #8
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    And it is.......?
    Always looking for interesting 7.62x25 Tokarev and 7.63 Mauser cartridges!!!
    Member: International Ammunition Assoc. (IAA), European Cartridge Research Assoc. (ECRA). Ask me about membership!

  10. #9
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    Definitely bigger than 11mm if the 50 is any comparison at 12.7mm.

    The 15mm BESA and the ZB gun are the same thing. The British bought the rights to the ZB37 in 8mm (7.92X57) for their tanks and also the larger 15mm ZB gun.

    I don't think its the Madsen round as they jumped from some oddball size direct to the 20mm prior to WWII. The thick rim is a key ID thing though and the Madsen guys did like thick rims for their machineguns.

    Frank
    Ich hab den Reset-Knopf gedrückt
    Doch nichts ist passiert

  11. #10
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    I asked the owner to provide the information you all ask for in trying to ID this cartridge. Hope this helps.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails FullSizeRenderc.jpeg  

    FullSizeRenderb.jpeg  

    FullSizeRender.jpeg  

    FullSizeRenderd.jpeg  

    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
    Thomas Jefferson

  12. #11
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    Might be 15 x 120 U.S. Spotter.

    https://naboje.org/en/node/13956
    Nescire autem quid ante quam natus sis acciderit, id est semper esse puerum.
    (To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child.)


    -M. Tullius Cicero

  13. #12
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    I think you are right

  14. #13
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    Yup, that sure looks like it. Thanks to all for your comments and sharing your knowledge.
    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
    Thomas Jefferson

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