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Double Oil Bottle Russian Character?

2K views 26 replies 6 participants last post by  Nick 
#1 ·
I’ve tried searching but cannot find an answer to the question of what the two characters on the side of the double oiler, often found with Russian firearms, mean: “Щ“ and “н”. Through using Google Translate I’ve determined that the “H” probably means “petroleum oil” but the other character has me stumped. I think it means “grease” but could also mean a cleaner/solvent.

Can any one answer my query?

Thanks in advance.

Bob
 
#5 ·
Щ for schelochnoi sostav ( alkaline solution)
H for netralnoe basically regular gun oil
Н = нефть = oil. Doesn't mean "netralnoe" (what word is this?)
Щ = щёлок = lye.
 
#11 · (Edited)
BTW, a resent book on the 91/30 & 44 translates Н = нормальное масло (normal oil), Щ = щелочное масло (alkaline oil). I am referring to the original meaning of the H.

Your scan doesn't show anything that contradicts what I wrote.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Absolutely. Grease is смазка, lard is сало (also means bacon). But there are also many nuances depending on the content. For example, tar was used as a wheel hub grease and normally we don't consider tar a grease. Lard also means fat (any animal fat), not necessarily bacon that comes from pigs.

The meaning of H has been discussed many times. The fact that there is no uniform translation (H is deciphered as normal, neutral, etc.) speaks about the somewhat nebulous origins of the term.
 
#16 ·
Very many thanks pavlin, Nick and daveccarlson for your very helpful and erudite posts. I had not meant to set a hare running. I am delighted that there are forums such as this where truely informed content is available and thoughtful answers to questions can be given/found.

Thanks again,

Bob
 
#20 ·
The alkaline solution, as well as the mineral oil were novelties. Before that the cleaning was with water and kerosene and the lubricants were vegetable oils or animal fat. I have several Russian manuals from the 19th century that describe in detail the cleaning process(es) and the preparation of lubricants from bacon.
 
#22 ·
#23 ·
I first came across these bottles in early wooden boxed sets of target pistols (TOZ 36 and 49, 35M, early Margolins). The more recently manufactured Margolins come in a black plastic case with a black plastic bottle with only one compartment for clp oil.
 
#24 ·
Very cool!

Yeah, one side of the bottle had the alkaline/lye bore cleaner, the other the oil. The rifle would be clenched between the knees and the Mosin-Nagant cleaning rod would be set up/ assembled with the jag, muzzle crown protector, etc. A little figure 8 loop of flax tow or hemp oakum fiber was put onto the jag like a disposable brush/patch and smeared with the bore solvent. This was used to clean the powder residue and carbon fouling after firing the rifle, and later some oil was used to preserve the bore. By the 1930s and the Voroshilov marksmanship program I think that cloth patches were also in use as well.

Thanks for the lesson in Russian guys! It demonstrates to us non-speakers the difficulties in literal translations versus others that might prove more intelligible if less accurate.

Willing to bet that like the English--another nation of tea drinkers--that near boiling water was often used to wash out the fouling just like the black-powder-era weapons. The British Home guard manuals called for about six imperial pints of water, followed by dry patching and a single oily patch. I must say that on my rebuilt--"refurbished"--Mosin-Nagants that there is often a lot of copper fouling left in the bore. Australia makes the excellent Sweet's 7.62 bore solvent to remove copper fouling, but boy does it give me a headache! Better ventilation I suppose.
 
#25 ·
... near boiling water was often used to wash out the fouling just like the black-powder-era weapons.
Yes, described on page 80. The water was not boiling or even hot, but described as warm.
 
#27 ·
That's more than clear, Google Translate is your friend. I question the notion that H stands for neutral or normal. It's hard to believe these words were in the mid-19 century Russian military lexicon. Just like the use of щёлок (lye) instead of алкальный раствор (alkaline solution).
 
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