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Italian Carcano Model Nomenclature and Designations

5K views 1 reply 1 participant last post by  1886lebel 
#1 · (Edited)
I am working on a quick guide of identifying the different types of Carcano firearms and the correct model designations these were called as we have new information to what these were really called as per the different various period manuals, texts, documents, circulars, etc.

Recently we have had a quite a bit of imports of different Carcano's from Italy from the stores of the Polizia di Stato, not Carabineri (These did not come out of the storage of the Carabinieri ( National Military Police) but from the Polizia di Stato ( National State Police), it is a huge difference.The Carabinieri is a Military Force and Military Police under control of Ministry of Defense (@100.000 personnel). The Polizia di Stato is not a military corps but a State Police under control of Ministry of Internal Affairs (@ 90.000 personnel), as a lot of people think they came from, to the USA and both Alberto Simonelli and myself have noticed that the nomenclature and or designations that people have been using to differentiate these have been incorrect, false or never used.

This is the official names of the different models of Carcano firearms, they were very specific to what they were called by them. There seems to be some mis-conception on the model designations from other websites, groups, posts, etc., these are the nomenclature that the Italians used for these, these come from various period manuals, texts, documents, circulars, etc.

I ask to please not respond or comment to this post at all please until I am done with it so I can keep this post open to keep adding stuff to it as I work on all of this. I know members want to have a sticky made as to the different type of these firearms and this one may well up being as such. Thank You.


Fucile Modello 1891 (Rifle Model 1891)
Caliber: 6,5 x 52 mm



These were adopted as per Ministerial Act No. 57 dated March 29, 1892
Rifling: gain-twist rate of starting at the chamber of 1:19.25″ and finishes up at the muzzle with a twist rate of 1:8.25"
Rear Sights Ranges: When the whole rear sight leaf is flipped forward the front of the rifle resting in the notch in the handguard, that notch is calibrated for 300 meters, this the normal way to keep the rear sight leaf during storage or carrying, this sight notch is known as the 'battle sight'. If you flip the rear sight leaf toward the rear of the rifle and resting on the 300 meter notch that notch is calibrated for 450 meters.



Moschetto Modello 1891 (Musketoon Model 1891)
Caliber: 6,5 x 52 mm



These were adopted on June 9, 1893 under the Act No. 116 dated of July 15, 1893 the nomenclature became official.
These have been referenced as ‘for Cavalry’ (per Cavalleria) carbines in both English and Italian lingo, it is incorrect and no such name has ever been used that called them as such. These were initially made to be issued to Cavalry Troops but were however issued to other troops as well such as the Carabinieri Reali, Bersaglieri Ciclisti and later to the Paratroopers and the MVSN Troops.
These were made from 1893 well up to 1944, the easiest way to say these are such models is they all have the adjustable rear sight, no matter by which manufacturer made them or what year they were manufactured, if it has this type of rear sight it is this particular model, plain and simple.
There were three types of folding bayonet latches used during production of these, the first was the sliding lock followed by the lever lock and finally the push button type. It is not know when the lever lock style replaced the sliding latch but it was believed to be in 1916, but both of these were to replaced with the push button as per Circular No.400 dated June 30,1916 however you will find the lever style was used well up to 1936.
Initially these models did not have handguards on them but were added to them as per Circular No.400 dated June 30,1916. They modified or manufactured new made nose caps for these with a little tab on the top of them to fit the handguard into. As part of this modification process they also had to modify the rear sight assembly on the back where the handguard fit into it. As part of these modifications you will sometimes see someone say Type 1 or Type 2 Moschetto Modello 1891 to differentiate between the ones without or with the handguards, this is not, I repeat, not an official designation or nomenclature, this only used by some collectors to differentiate between them and only should be used as reference only.
Rifling: gain-twist rate of starting at the chamber of 1:15.34”(38,96 cm) and finishes up at the muzzle with a twist rate of 1:7.48” (19,00 cm)
Rear Sights Ranges: When the whole rear sight leaf is flipped forward the front of the rifle resting in the notch in the handguard, that notch is calibrated for 300 meters, this the normal way to keep the rear sight leaf during storage or carrying, this sight notch is known as the 'battle sight'. If you flip the rear sight leaf toward the rear of the rifle and resting on the 300 meter notch that notch is calibrated for 450 meters.
Manufacturers: Brescia, Fabbrica d'Armi Regio Esercito di Terni, Sezione Fabbrica d'Armi Regio Esercito di Gardonne Val Trompia, Fabbrica Nazionale d'Armi di Brescia, Fabbrica d'Armi Pietro Beretta di Gardone Val Trompia



Moschetto per Truppe Speciali Modello 1891 (Musketoon for Special Troops Model 1891)
Caliber: 6,5 x 52 mm



On January 6th 1900 under Act No.6 these firearms were officially called as such models even though they were started in 1898.
These all have the side mounted type (transverse) of bayonet lug on the nose cap and have the adjustable rear sight. These also had slings swivels on the bottom of the buttstock and on the nose cap.
There two types of handguards and nose caps used on the models, the first was the type where the handguard was not retained by a little tab on the nose cap on the top of them but it was found that these could come off so as per Circular No.124 dated February 25, 1916 they decided to add the little tab to keep them in place. As part of these modifications you will sometimes see someone say Type 1 or Type 2 Moschetto per T.S. Modello 1891 to differentiate between the ones without or with the modification, this is not, I repeat, not an official designation or nomenclature, this only used by some collectors to differentiate between them and only should be used as reference only.
Rifling: gain-twist rate of starting at the chamber of 1:15.34” (38,96 cm) and finishes up at the muzzle with a twist rate of 1:7.48” (19,00 cm)
Rear Sights Ranges: When the whole rear sight leaf is flipped forward the front of the rifle resting in the notch in the handguard, that notch is calibrated for 300 meters, this the normal way to keep the rear sight leaf during storage or carrying, this sight notch is known as the 'battle sight'. If you flip the rear sight leaf toward the rear of the rifle and resting on the 300 meter notch that notch is calibrated for 450 meters.



Moschetto Modello 1891/ 1924 (Musketoon Model 1891 / 1924)
Caliber: 6,5 x 52 mm



In 1925 they started conversion of the Fuclie Modello 1891 to be shortened and these were called as Moschetto Modello 1891/1924 as per Circular No. 59 dated January 29, 1925 which specifically says the nomenclature of this firearm shall be 'moschetto mod. 91/24'.
The easiest way to tell this model is that it has the longer adjustable rear sight of the rifle on it, these did not have the smaller shorter adjustable rear sights.
Rifling: ?
Rear Sights Ranges: When the whole rear sight leaf is flipped forward the front of the rifle resting in the notch in the handguard, that notch is calibrated for 300 meters, this the normal way to keep the rear sight leaf during storage or carrying, this sight notch is known as the 'battle sight'. If you flip the rear sight leaf toward the rear of the rifle and resting on the 300 meter notch that notch is calibrated for 450 meters.



Moschetto per Truppe Speciali Modello 1891 Modificato (Musketoon for Special Troops Model 1891 Modified)
Caliber: 6,5 x 52 mm



There were several changes in different years of these in the sling configurations and bayonet mount on the nose cap. They either kept the original sling configuration, got rid of the one the buttstock and filled it in with wood and the one on the nose cap was also removed. They added a sling bar to the left side on the buttstock and on the left side of the stock. They also later decided to use both type of sling configurations on them. The nose caps for these were configured to use the standard 1891 rifle bayonet instead of the side mounted type and in some cases the original nose cap was replaced with the type used on the 1891 / 1924 and using a barrel band they utilized. See this post for more details ... https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?1169357-Chronology-of-m91-TS-Updates
The easiest way to tell if it it is this model is that these will all have the smaller, shorter adjustable rear sight, none of these ever used the larger longer rear sights as used on the 1891/1924 on them.
These have been called as 91/28 models and it was told to me by a well known author on these firearms, in no such way, shape or form were these ever called as 91/28's, there was a Moschetto Modello 1891 / 1928 model but it was specifically used as the nomenclature of the rifle that was designed to use the Tromblonico grenade launcher. They specifically in the different circulars they wrote on the modification of these firearms, use the word modificato or T.S. modificato, nowhere are they referred to as 91/28's.
Rifling: gain-twist rate of starting at the chamber of 1:15.34” (38,96 cm) and finishes up at the muzzle with a twist rate of 1:7.48” (19,00 cm)
Rear Sights Ranges: When the whole rear sight leaf is flipped forward the front of the rifle resting in the notch in the handguard, that notch is calibrated for 300 meters, this the normal way to keep the rear sight leaf during storage or carrying, this sight notch is known as the 'battle sight'. If you flip the rear sight leaf toward the rear of the rifle and resting on the 300 meter notch that notch is calibrated for 450 meters.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
The Italians manufactured and adopted three different models of firearms in 1938 which all have the non-adjustable fixed block rear sight on them and were made in two different calibers; 6,5x52 and 7,35x51 mm. None of these different models ever used the designation of 91/38 in their nomenclature they were all 1938's, plain and simple. These designation came about as a way to tell you which caliber they were in, so if you said 38 it implied 7,35 and if you said 91/38 it would mean 6,5 but it is incorrect and false.


Fucile Modello 1938 (Rifle Model 1938)
Caliber: 7,35 x 51 & 6,5 x 52 mm



Rear Sight: 7,35 x 51 mm fixed rear block sight calibrated for 200 meter; 6,5 x 52 mm fixed rear block sight calibrated for 300 meter
Rifling: 7,35 x 51 mm progressive rate of 1 in 9.45" (24 cm); 6,5 x 52 mm progressive rate of 1 in 8.46" (21,5 cm)



Moschetto Modello 1938 (Musketoon Model 1938)
Caliber: 7,35 x 51 & 6,5 x 52 mm



These have been referenced as ‘for Cavalry’ (per Cavalleria) carbines in both English and Italian lingo, it is incorrect and no such name has ever been used that called them as such.
Rear Sight: 7,35 x 51 mm fixed rear block sight calibrated for 200 meter; 6,5 x 52 mm fixed rear block sight calibrated for 300 meter
Rifling: 7,35 x 51 mm progressive rate of 1 in 9.45" (24 cm); 6,5 x 52 mm progressive rate of 1 in 8.46" (21,5 cm)



Moschetto per Truppe Speciali Modello 1938 (Musketoon for Special Troops Model 1938)
Caliber: 7,35 x 51 & 6,5 x 52 mm




Rear Sight: 7,35 x 51 mm fixed rear block sight calibrated for 200 meter; 6,5 x 52 mm fixed rear block sight calibrated for 300 meter
Rifling: 7,35 x 51mm progressive rate of 1 in 9.45" (24 cm); 6,5 x 52 mm progressive rate of 1 in 8.46" (21,5 cm)



Fucile Modello 1891 / 1941 (Rifle Model 1891 / 1941)
Caliber: 6,5 x 52 mm




Rear Sights Ranges: When the whole rear sight leaf is flipped forward the front of the rifle resting in the notch in the handguard, that notch is calibrated for 200 meters, this the normal way to keep the rear sight leaf during storage or carrying, this sight notch is known as the 'battle sight'. If you flip the rear sight leaf toward the rear of the rifle and resting on the 200 meter notch that notch is calibrated for 300 meters.
Rifling: progressive rate of 1 in 8.46" (21,5 cm)
 
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