1941-dated pattern '14 leather sling: Help bones92 decide what to put it on!!

View Poll Results: Which rifle should get the 1941-dated leather sling?

Voters
17. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1941 dated Dispersal SMLE

    4 23.53%
  • 1941 dated Lithgow SMLE

    2 11.76%
  • Either of the Pattern 14 rifles, since the sling was probably issued to home guards anyway...

    11 64.71%
Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: 1941-dated pattern '14 leather sling: Help bones92 decide what to put it on!!

  1. #1
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    Default 1941-dated pattern '14 leather sling: Help bones92 decide what to put it on!!

    Okay, gents... thanks to your collective help, I know this is a legitimate Patt '14 sling.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Now, I will solicit your collective opinion on which rifle it should adorn, with an eye toward (1) concurrent period issue and (2) most fitting...

    Feel free to comment as to what you voted for, and why.

  2. #2
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    I'd put it on the Dispersal rifle, personally, though the P-14 wouldn't be a bad choice either. I just happen to think the sling looks better on an SMLE.

  3. #3

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    Since these slings dated to the Second World War were made primarily for the Home Army, it really belongs on a P14 or Lend Leased US M1917 which were the primary arm of "Dad's Army". Of course it can fit on just about any British rifle you like.....

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  5. #4
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    TP, sure it can fit on any one, and would be appropriate for any of the choices... but polls are fun! Plus, I'm interested in hearing why people think it should be on this or that.

  6. #5
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    Although I voted for the '41 Dispersal rifle, neither of my 1941 SMLEs sports the leather sling.
    I have a '40 dated sling that lives on an ACG Martini Enfield and a '41 dated sling for the '41 BSA No4 Mk1.
    -----krinko

  7. #6
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    It was intended for the P14; therefore, that's where it should go, in my opinion.
    "Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare for war! Rouse the warriors! Let all the fighting men draw near and attack. Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears. Let the weakling say, 'I am strong!'" Joel 3:9-10

  8. #7
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    Leather slings were not made primarily for P14s or the home army, they were just part of a webbing system that was still on issue to all forces alongside the new P37 system. Look at photos of the BEF in France in 1940 - about half of them have leather slings on their No1s.

  9. #8
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    Agree with Thunderbox (and voted for the '41 Dispersal, BTW).
    "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." --- Samuel Adams

  10. #9
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    41 Dispersals as well,

  11. #10
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    Only 11 votes, of which half are for the P14 rifle.

    C'mon now, gents... surely some of you have something to say about this!

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbox View Post
    Leather slings were not made primarily for P14s or the home army, they were just part of a webbing system that was still on issue to all forces alongside the new P37 system. Look at photos of the BEF in France in 1940 - about half of them have leather slings on their No1s.
    Thunderbox, you are of course, correct for the army at Dunkirk and earlier and in India and the colonies, but the leather sling had not been manufactured since the Great War and the army was using up equipment in stock including new P08 gear. Many British troops leaving Dunkirk had gone into the fight wearing P08 gear, not having had supplies of the newer, more efficient P37 gear available to them before going to France. The new manufacture of the leather (P14?) sling was begun again during WW2 (after Dunkirk) but you will rarely see it in photographs of front line regulars in any theater during that conflict. It is, however, commonly seen in photographs of the Home Army who are using leather P39 gear, the substitute standard for the new P37 webbing set. As the war went on, the second rate dispersal rifles (many made with used parts) may have seen issue to the Home Army in order to simplify ammunition supply, especially when part of the Home Army was using the US .30 caliber ammunition in the US Lend Lease supplied Rifle M1917.

    For answers to any questions on the use of substitute leather gear by British Forces during the Second World War "Karkee Web" at:

    http://www.karkeeweb.com/

  13. #12
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    As Thunderbox stated though (and backed up by Karkee web), the leather kit wasn't specifically designed for the Home Army, the P'14 rifle, or anything other than the massive buildup in forces, based largely on the logistical experiences of WWI, when web makers had trouble keeping up with demand. Like most equipment of the emergency standard type, as the demand lessens, it gets sent farther back from the front line. I'd be willing to bet some got used in N.Africa, and it certainly seems to have been issued to rear echelon deployed units, and training outfits during the rest of the war.

    Still a good fit for the dispersal rifle, IMO...
    "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." --- Samuel Adams

  14. #13
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    The correct choice isn't listed, I'm afraid: it is, "Send it to Radionicist to put on his M1917 Lend lease rifle"








    Do this, and the Keepers of the Rifle Karma shall reward you richly.

  15. #14
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    I vote for it to be used on the P14

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhead75 View Post
    As Thunderbox stated though (and backed up by Karkee web), the leather kit wasn't specifically designed for the Home Army, the P'14 rifle, or anything other than the massive buildup in forces, based largely on the logistical experiences of WWI, when web makers had trouble keeping up with demand. Like most equipment of the emergency standard type, as the demand lessens, it gets sent farther back from the front line. I'd be willing to bet some got used in N.Africa, and it certainly seems to have been issued to rear echelon deployed units, and training outfits during the rest of the war.

    Still a good fit for the dispersal rifle, IMO...
    You are, of course, correct, it wasn't specifically designed for the Home Army and I never said it was. I do have to say that I have yet to see a photograph of such a leather sling or any of the leather P39 set worn on any active front. Photos showing the leather sling on issue during the '39-'45 War are exclusively shown with the Home Army. It was stop gap equipment that found almost all of it's use in rear areas, primarily in England for training and equipping those stationed there. I have been looking for evidence of the leather slings and other 2nd line equipment in use by front line troops for a long time and have yet to see photos that would allow us to make definitive statements otherwise. If anyone knows of any evidence otherwise, I would love to see it. The dispersal rifle will be a fine place for it since those that I have seen (and owned) that had unit markings were always marked to the RAF or other non-combat formations however, the RAF had a pretty fair store of webbing of it's own Pattern 25 which included "Sling, rifle, web, R.A.F. Pattern 1925" in blue-grey .

  17. #16
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    Since these slings dated to the Second World War were made primarily for the Home Army, it really belongs on a P14 or Lend Leased US M1917 which were the primary arm of "Dad's Army".
    Sorry...guess you were saying "po-tah-to", and I was hearing "po-tay-to". I should also have said that it wasn't designed or made for the Home Army, but rather produced to supplement web equipment based on the WWI experience. It was intended for front line use should web production prove inadequate, which, as it turned out, was not the case (at least in western Europe).

    I'll do some digging in the old archives and see if I can't come up with something more substantial.
    "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." --- Samuel Adams

  18. #17

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    Excellent jrhead75, I will be looking forward to anything you can come up with. I'll try to take some time to look as well, it's been a while.

    (In Appalachia where I grew up we never say "po-tah-to" and rarely say "po-tay-to", we usually say " 'tater"....)

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TP View Post
    (In Appalachia where I grew up we never say "po-tah-to" and rarely say "po-tay-to", we usually say " 'tater"....)
    LOL. Oh, you wuz talkin' 'bout TATERS bafore! Ah git it naow.
    "Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare for war! Rouse the warriors! Let all the fighting men draw near and attack. Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears. Let the weakling say, 'I am strong!'" Joel 3:9-10

  20. #19
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    A majority of votes are for the Patt '14 rifle, but somehow it just seems out of place on that rifle (to my eye). Did the British also incorporate US slings into service, similar to the use of the 1907 sling on the No4(T)?

    It just seems to look better on an SMLE... maybe because we usually associate usage of the leather sling on SMLE's going back to WW1.

  21. #20
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    You know it looks better on the SMLE. The P'14 sling is actually a very old design - that design of sling dates back to at least the Martini-Henry. The same type of sling was used on MLE and early SMLE rifles as well.



    -Mark

  22. #21
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    Anyone have a close-up of how the thong is tied on the bottom end?

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bones92 View Post
    Anyone have a close-up of how the thong is tied on the bottom end?
    I asked the same question a while back. Lithy kindly responded, here is a link to the post.
    https://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...er-sling-help-!

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