The Walther automatic shotgun
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Thread: The Walther automatic shotgun

  1. #1
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    Default The Walther automatic shotgun

    Gentlemen,

    just recently I bought a rare Walther semi-auto shotgun, what's a gun with a strange look - to say the least. As this toggle action gun is unique in several aspects and as only few is known about it, I like to present the gun and its background in detail.




    Development of the toggle action shotgun

    Actually, the Walther isn't the first automatic shotgun having a toggle action. The honour of being the first inventor of a toggle action shotgun most likely goes to Sir Hiram Maxim, the famous inventor of machine guns. He also invented and patented a shotgun with a toggle action in 1886. Shown here is a drawing from US patent No. 447,836, which was filed in USPTO on December 28, 1886 and which was granted on March 10, 1891.



    His design most probably is the first automatic shotgun of the world - long before John Moses Browning came out with his Auto 5. I don't know if a prototype existed.

    Next toggle action auto shotgun is John Moses Browning's shotgun, for which a patent also was granted in the US:



    His patent No. 730,870 was filed in USPTO on May 6, 1899 and granted on June 16, 1903. Browning made a prototype which still does exist in the Browning museum in Ogden, Utah.

    The next inventor is Carl Hoffmann, Germany, who invented a quiet odd looking shotgun with a toggle action, for which two German patents No. 153025 and 211229 were granted. Filing dates were February 2, 1903 and May 30, 1906.



    The drawing is from German patent No. 211229. I don't know anything about Hoffmann and I don't know, if a prototype did exist or not.

    Anyway: the designs of Maxim, Browning and Hoffmann didn't make it to series production, while the Walther did.


    Development of the Walther shotgun



    Fritz and Georg Walther, co-owners of the Carl Walther firm in Zella-Mehlis, owned ten German patents for the toggle action shotgun. The first two (German patents No. 333198 and 323225) were filed in German patent office on November 21, 1918.





    The latest patent is German patent No. 363438, filed in German patent office on November 08, 1921.




    Of course, Walther also filed patents in other countries, e. g. US patents
    1,457,477 and 1,481,042.




    While owners of the German patents are Fritz and Georg Walther, other patents outside Germany for the Walther shotgun are mentioning additionally Erich Walther as a co-owner. Erich is the third Walther brother; all three brothers jointly owned the Walther company.



    But the main inventor will have been Fritz Walther, as he was the ingenious spirit of the Walther Company. In any case: it took Walther three years to finalize the design of the gun.


    Production and variations of the Walther shotgun

    In Manfred Kersten's book [Ref. 1] production time is mentioned with "1921- 1931". I doubt this. At least, start of production seems to be too early, as in a period book of 1922 (foreword written in Summer 1921) [Ref. 2] is stated, that "Unfortunately, the long-awaited Walther shotgun isn't on the market yet". And in an article [Ref. 3] is mentioned, that "the Rheinmetall was the first German automatic shotgun on the market" - and the Rheinmetall didn't came out before 1922. Also, the last patent for the Walther shotgun was filed in German Patent Office in November 1921 and it is unlikely sales began before filing the last gun relating patent. So I tend to believe, sales of the Walther did not start before 1922.

    Here’s the first Walther ad emphasizing the Walther shotgun “being in production” (from Ref. 3):



    And here’s an ad from Deutsche Werke from the same source:



    Anyway: the Walthers did not produce the shotgun in their own factory in Zella-Mehlis, but licensed their patents to "Deutsche Werke A.G." in Erfurt (what's 40 Miles away from Zella-Mehlis). Deutsche Werke (DW in the following) was a state-owned company established after WWI. DW was a conglomerate of former state-owned arsenals, like the rifle factory in Spandau, the rifle factory in Erfurt, but also the dockyard in Kiel belonged to DW. Headquarters of DW was in Berlin.

    The Erfurt branch of DW (formerly the "Königliche Gewehrfabrik" - Royal Rifle factory) was producing until the end of WWI the Mauser 98 rifle, the Erfurt Luger pistol and machine guns.




    After WWI any military production was halted. DW Erfurt tried to survive by producing the Ortgies pistol, the "D-Tesching" (a single shot .22 garden rifle) and the Walther shotgun. But the Military Inter-Allied Commission of Control stopped the gun production anyway, although production of guns being unserviceable for war purposes wasn't against the Versailles treaty. Specifically, the Military Inter-Allied Commission of Control ordered on September 28, 1921 stop of gun production for March 31, 1922 [Ref. 4, page 8]. At that time, 1,700 out of 2122 workers of DW Erfurt were involved in the production of guns [Ref. 4, page 17]. I assume most of these 1,700 were involved in the production of the Ortgies pistol and the D-Tesching, while only few will have been involved in the set-up for the production of the Walther shotgun in September 1921. But this is strictly a guess. I also don't know, if the ultimatum of the Military Inter-Allied Commission of Control to halt any gun production latest on March 31, 1922 was fulfilled or delayed. In any case, in 1923 latest no guns at all were produced by DW Erfurt; the factory floors were empty (most of the machines had to be destroyed); DW and the company AEG formed a joint venture ("AEG Deutsche Werke") for producing "Olympia" typewriters in Erfurt.

    But obviously, DW produced at least the first Walther shotguns. How many and how long still is a miracle.

    It seems to me, DW produced the majority of all guns or at least the majority of in-the-white parts. DW had the capacities (again: 1,700 workers) for a high output, even in a short time. For example, around 400,000 Ortgies pistols were made by DW from 1919 until 1922 (or 1923), what's a very high output.



    A very early offer of the Rheinmetall and the Walther shotgun in a catalog of German wholesaler Burgsmüller of circa 1922/23 (a very friendly German collector sent me a scan of this page).

    The period literature is quiet vague regarding the transfer from DW to Walther.

    In a book of 1926 [Ref. 5] is mentioned: "So far, the Walther shotgun was produced by Deutsche Werke in Erfurt. Since recently, the shotgun is delivered by the Carl Walther Company". "Delivered" doesn't mean "produced"….. Another book [Ref. 6] isn't any clearer: "Later the company Carl Walther in Zella-Mehlis took over distribution of the gun". "Distribution" also doesn't imply "production"…..

    But all period references are clear regarding one point: the shotguns made under the control of DW had some issues: malfunctions caused i. a. by some parts made of inferior material. The books are listing a dozen of parts improved by Walther. This improved shotgun was advertised as an "Improved model Ia", like in the Geco catalogue of 1927:



    It looks exactly like the older variation. Only difference is the new parts. These new and improved parts (i. a. the dust cover) were appropriate for the old variation also and I assume, at least some of the old guns were "updated" at the Walther factory with the new parts.

    Another possibility: while Walther took over distribution/marketing of the shotgun, DW continued to produce the gun "underhand". That's a bold statement, yes, but I have a clue. That clue is the owner's manual I have. The owner's manual has a printing date of 1926 and the stylized D logo of Deutsche Werke on the cover.



    This logo (a more stylized logo with a "D", formed by a stylized felid) was used since 1924 by DW - up to 1923, the more natural D forming felid was used (like present on my gun). Usage of the logo of Deutsche Werke after 1924 on a Walther manual doesn’t make sense - unless Deutsche Werke still was involved in producing the gun.
    Another point: none of the Walthers I've seen so far is marked with the full Walther legend plus the Walther banner. But any gun produced at the Walther factory always had the full "Carl Walther Waffenfabrik Zella-Mehlis" legend and the Walther banner. Only Walthers made by others (e. g. the Walther Model 4 pistols produced by subcontractors during WWI) did not have the Walther legend.

    When production and sales stopped also is uncertain. The Walther is mentioned in a book of 1930 [Ref. 6] as being available; in the 1932 Geco catalog it isn't listed any longer. So, 1931 is a good end point. How many Walther auto shotguns were produced also is unknown. The highest serial number I'm currently aware of is 5751. So I guess, not more than 6,000 ever were made.

    Variations

    The technical variations:



    The variation with the reinforcing rib on left seems to be a more rare variation. The majority of the Walther shotguns don't have that rib. I don't know, when the reinforcing rib was introduced; the only Walther with the rib I saw didn't reveal the SN…..

    The third variation is shown in a book of 1930 [Ref. 6]. There are some differences I highlighted.




    This design does look much better than the older design. Unfortunately, I haven't seen such a variation in real yet. So I don't know, if this variation did exist in real or not.

    The different receiver legends

    Up to date, I've seen three different receiver legends:

    1/ First variation of the legend:

    DEUTSCHE WERKE ERFURT
    WALTHER'S PATENT




    This legend is present on the two earliest guns I've seen so far, i. e. SN 1043 and 1060.


    2/ Second variation of the legend:

    WALTHER'S PATENT



    It's my impression, that the very same roll-die used for the first variation (with the DW logo and "Deutsche Werke Erfurt" removed) was used for the second variation. Another explanation could be that earlier in-the-white parts (with the DW legend) had been reworked by Walther to get rid of the DW legend.

    Seems to be the most common legend; lowest SN I'm currently aware of is No.1121, highest is No. 5747.


    3/ Third variation of the legend:

    Automat Cal. 12 (in recessed panel)



    The third variation "Automat Cal. 12" is very interesting. The recessed panel was milled over the "WALTHER'S PATENT" legend. This is at least true for #4227. Very good photos of #4227 are available here:

    http://foro.fullaventura.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62428

    Choose the close up of the "Automat Cal. 12" photo, open it (very large!) and you will see: the "W" of "WALTHER'S PATENT" still is visible.

    The third variation of the legend can be found sometimes in the 3xxx, the 4xxx and in the 5xxx SN range; there doesn't seem to be a system behind it. I simply don't know, why some are marked this way and others aren't.

    I was informed by a very advanced shotgun collector about two other legends:

    AUTOMATISCHE FLINTE
    WALTHERFLINTE

    As I haven't seen these legends yet, I'm not really sure about the existence of these legends.


    Barrel markings

    All barrels do have the normal German proofs for shotgun barrels, i. e. the Imperial German eagle, Crown/W (choke bore barrels), crown/S (smooth barrels), crown/U (first proof), "Nitro" (smokeless powder proof), as well as the gauge representing proof marks "Circle with 12" and "13/1". Barrels proofed after September 1923 additionally will have a proof date (a three or four digit number representing month/year of the proof, e. g. 225 = Feb. 1925 or 1027 = October 1927) and another three digit number below the proof date. I don't have an explanation for the latter. Late barrels have additionally the crown/N (smokeless powder proof) next to the word "Nitro".






    On the left side of the barrel the gauge/chamber length is marked and also the sort of steel:

    Cal. 12 - 65 m/m = 2 ½" KRUPPSTAHL



    or, on late guns (serial number over 5000)

    Cal. 12 - 65 m/m = 2 ½" SPEZIALSTAHL

    By the way: all barrels have a length of 70 cm (27 ½") and a choke constriction of 0.8 mm = full choke.


    Other markings

    Some guns are marked with "GERMANY" on the left side of the triggerguard - other aren't. My gun isn't marked that way.


    In the "Safe" position an "S" is visible on the bottom of the gun, while in the unsafe position an "F" is visible.






    Serial numbers

    Up to date, I collected around forty serial numbers plus the relating data of Walther shotguns. Lowest serial number I'm currently aware of is 1043 and highest is 5751. Earliest with "WALTHER'S PATENT" (only) on left is #1121. I'm estimating a total of approximately 6,000 guns made - if (!!) production started at serial number "1". It also could be, production started at "1000".

    Gauges

    All Walthers I'm aware of are in 12 gauge with a 65 mm (= 2 9/16") long chamber. But it can't be ruled out, that there were/are at least some in 16 gauge. In a period book [Ref. 2] is stated: "Die langersehnte Waltherflinte ist leider noch nicht im Handel. Das Handmuster Kaliber 16, das ich zur Erprobung führe, arbeitet tadellos".

    In English: "Unfortunately, the long-awaited Walther shotgun isn't on the market yet. The prototype in 16 gauge I'm using for testing is working faultlessly."

    Another hint for the existence of a 16 gauge can be found in an older thread of 2004 here:

    http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...0cc4b&start=20

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveGoode
    The Rock Island Auction Company in Rock Island, Illinois is having a Auction starting April 17th and running to April 19th [note: 2004]. Viewing begins April 15th.
    Item No. 3340 is a Walther Semi-Automatic Shotgun (without rear stock). They estimate it to go between $250 to $500. It is a War Trophy captured by Major P.W. Constance at the Walther factory at Zella-Mehlis. Marked "Deutsche Weke Erfurt/ Walther's Patent" in two lines. Serial no. 1043 in 16 gauge.
    Interestingly, #1043 now is in Germany and a friend knows where it is located. Currently, he tries to get more info about it.


    And now for my gun

    My Walther Serial number 1060 is an early variation with the early "Deutsche Werke" legend
























    The early horn buttplate with the "D" logo of "Deutsche Werke"



    The later variations had a serrated horn buttplate without any logo.


    Instructions for use

    It may appear odd: how to use the Walther in pictures. But the gun is so different from any other automatic shotgun, so I felt it convenient to show how to use it.

    Loading:

    Open the action by turning the crank lever. Insert the first shell into the chamber.



    Close the action by pressing the button on the bottom of the receiver.

    Press back the button on the left side of the receiver until the forearm falls down.




    Turn the gun upside down and load shells in the magazine - the button on the bottom of the receiver acts as a cartridge stop. Press the forearm up until it arrests.



    Press the safety button from right to left (in the "Safe" position an "S" is visible, while in the unsafe position a "F" is visible).

    Shoot (pulling the trigger is the only action known from other guns).

    Field stripping

    When I talked with owners of a Walther shotgun the reaction always was the same: "Do yourself a favour: NEVER disassemble it! It's a nightmare!" Well, I listened to what the other owner said and did not dissemble it yet. But probably, I will do it later when I have enough courage to do it.

    So, I just took the barrel off, what's any easy operation (and necessary for cleaning the barrel).

    First step: take the forearm off

    Second step: unscrew the barrel: open the action, unscrew the barrel lock screw and unscrew the barrel.

    The manual proposes using a barrel wrench given to every shotgun - but this will not be necessary, because normally the barrel can be unscrewed by hand.



    I didn't shoot my new toy yet - but will do it soon. I'm quiet curious to see, if it will cycle properly, how the recoil is and so on. The gun has a short barrel recoil and a striker firing pin, so I expect it will shoot faster than an Auto 5. But let's see. I will report about the outcome.

    I'd highly appreciate it, if owners of a Walther shotgun would tell me details of their gun, i. e. serial number, receiver legend variation, receiver variation (rib or no rib), barrel legend (Kruppstahl or Spezialstahl), proof date (when present).

    Best regards

    Martin


    References

    Ref. 1: Manfred Kersten "Walther - A German Legend", pages 214 - 217

    Ref. 2: Albert Preuß: “Jagdwaffen”, Neumann printing house, 1922 (foreword written in Summer 1921), page 149

    Ref. 3: Short article in German gun journal „Der Waffenschmied“, 1925, page 560

    Ref.4: Konrad Eilers “Handbuch der praktischen Schußwaffenkunde und Schießkunst”, 3rd Edition, Paul Parey printing house, Berlin 1926 (foreword written in May 1926)

    Ref. 5: Spitzenverbände der Deutschen Gewerkschaften (Trades Union Congress) "Die Maßnahmen der Interaliierten Militär-Kontrollkommission gegen die Deutsche Werke A.-G." (Sanctions of the Military Inter-Allied Commission of Control against the Deutsche Werke AG), Berlin, November 9, 1921, 24 pages

    Ref. 6: Albert Preuß: “Jagdwaffen”, Neumann printing house, 1930 (foreword written in spring 1930), pages 22/23

  2. #2
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    if you would mind what are the general values if a gun was found?

    wonderful info...i love the looks of those pistols...almost had one...but
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    For what it is worth, my Walther has the common receiver, marked "Walther's Patent," no F or S below safety button, "Germany" on left side of rear trigger guard. Serial No. 5380, 12 ga.

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    outstanding sauerfan

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    Hi „breakeyp“,

    thanks for the data of your Walther. The absence of “F” and “S” is most interesting. Coincidentally, I examined yesterday a Walther #21xx – also without “F” and “S”.

    Just out of curiosity: the barrel your gun will be marked with “Spezialstahl”, correct?

    And: is there a proof date present?

    @DK PHILLIPS:

    Value…. Well, the range is between $200 and $2500 approximately. These are rare guns and they pop up once a year, maybe. I’ve seen any possible price.

    Best regards

    Martin

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    Guten tag, Martin -

    Mine is 12 ga., sn 26xx, standard proofs, no date stamp, "Kruppstahl Nitro", no "Germany" on trigger guard, w/"F/S" safety marks, no boss on receiver sides, "Walther's Patent", plain buttplate.

    I've shot it w/trimmed shells handloaded to standard 2 1/2" pressure and it shoots fine but won't even attempt to eject.
    No one whom I've contacted has one which functions semi-automatically, or self-loads.

    It appears to be basically a locked-breech blowback design, but with a (very) short-recoil initial movement, which I assume is what should break the link for continuation of the cycle.
    Hand movement of the upper assembly for that short distance requires quite an effort (and still does not break the link!), so I don't understand how recoil could manage it.
    If anyone has had successful operation, or knows where the problem may lie, information on loads or a fix
    would be much appreciated.

    As have many, I've disassembled firearms of all sorts, and I've had this one apart and back together again 3 or 4 times, yet I have no idea how it should be done!

    The major problem for me is getting the upper receiver off the lower section.
    It slips back on fairly easily, but it's a bear to get off again even at this point, tho' I've studied the milling cuts involved at length.
    The dustshield pin was repaired recently, so I must do it again to replace the part.
    If any of you could explain the proper way to do a fieldstrip, it'd be a great help.
    I've also removed the trigger guard assembly once, to see how that worked, and cannot recommend doing so unless necessary.

    And a very STRONG caution to all:
    DO NOT dry fire this gun - the striker will break!
    I did so about twice shortly after I got it - which precipitated my first disassembly.
    To decock the striker, hold the operating lever in the down position, press the bolt release on the bottom, then ease the lever up while pressing the trigger.

    Thanks very much for your discussion.
    I share the information I have on these shotguns - these were emailed to me as you see them (Thanks Jean Marie, if you see this).

    regards,

    Terry
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Walther2.jpg  

    Walther3.jpg  

    Walther1.jpg  


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    If it works anything like other toggle action arms it will need a minimum pressure to function. Typical 2 1/2 inch 12 ga loads are for low pressure British doubles and vintage shotguns and probably well under the requirements.

    The SAAMI max chamber pressure for a 2.75 inch 12 ga. shell is 11,500 psi. The older 2.5s were loaded to only 6,000 to 7,000 psi.
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    I agree - it seems a low pressure problem.
    While the gun may well be capable of handling higher pressure, it was intended for the loads of it's day, which would seem to argue against that.
    The load I have is from an AR article a few years back on loading 2 1/2" shells, and IIRC, is actually more in the 8-8.5K psi range, so I don't know what the issue may be.


    regards,

    Terry

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    Exceptional article! I've seen these shotguns on rare occasion and always wondered about them, you've answered all my questions in one go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rigby275 View Post
    I agree - it seems a low pressure problem.
    While the gun may well be capable of handling higher pressure, it was intended for the loads of it's day, which would seem to argue against that.
    The load I have is from an AR article a few years back on loading 2 1/2" shells, and IIRC, is actually more in the 8-8.5K psi range, so I don't know what the issue may be.


    regards,

    Terry
    8,500 PSI may very well not be enough to function that action.

    I am unaware of any difference between pressure specifications for 2 1/2" 12-gauge from the 11,500 PSI pressure specification for 12ga 2 3/4".

    As much as I have read that the Luger's toggle-link action has no forgiveness for "sub-par" low pressure 9mm ammo, I have no reason to doubt that action in a shotgun may well demand 10,000 to 11,000psi loadings to function properly.

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    Actually, I don't know what the pressure specs are for current 2 1/2" 12 ga. shells, and you may be correct that at 11.5k the action would function.
    Perhaps there were also higher pressure loads available in the '20s/'30s for stronger actions, anyone know?.

    If not, the article I referred to, and info from another shotgun forum, indicated the lower pressure to which I've loaded was appropriate for "period" 2 1/2" European shells, which it seems "should" work the action, so my suspicion that something else is involved.
    I've had reports of 3 other guns which would fire but not function using modern shells.
    And the short-chambered Brownings have no problem with them that I'm aware of.

    But before I try higher pressure, I'm hoping someone can report functional results with a current load or handload.
    I will say, FWIW, that I have no reason to suspect the gun would not safely handle 11.5K psi.

    regards,

    Terry

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    A further note:

    On the bottom of the buttstock, just in front of the swivel, in tiny, nearly illegible letters is stamped "Waffen-Frankone", while the number 18xx is stamped much larger fore and aft the swivel - their inventory number at one time maybe?

    Terry

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    A look through Hodgdon's data for 2 1/2" shells shows data for Winchester AA/HS hulls, Federal Gold Medal (plastic) hulls, and data for Remington Unibody/STS/Gun Club hulls.

    Win. uses Universal Clays (not to be confused with "plain" Clays or International Clays).
    1 ounce payloads, WWAA12R (the red wad).
    20, 21, and 22gr of powder, making 8,500, 9,500, 10,300psi, velocities of 1180, 1250, 1300fps.


    Remington:
    Same powder
    1 ounce payload, WWAA12R (the red wad).
    20.8gr of powder, making 7,300psi, velocity of 1180fps.


    Federal
    INTERNATIONAL Clays, WWAA12 (White) wad, 20gr powder, 8,200psi, 1250fps.


    Compare those to whatever you have tried.

    If they don't cycle your gun, I'd be testing that heavy WIn. AA load. That'd be a nice all-weather hunting load and IMO SHOULD cycle your gun assuming it's clean and properly lubed.

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    I highly doubt "higher-pressure loads for stronger actions" ever existed.

    Consider the shotgun is about as pure an outgrowth from Black Powder as anything has ever been.

    Until recently boxes used to tell you velocity at a given payload weight by telling you drams of black powder needed to push that shot charge that fast, "Drams Equivilant".

    Most of the cartridges that crossed over from black to nitro powders are still "restricted" to their lower pressure black powder history due to the black powder-era firearms still in existence.

    The only "change" I have been able to find in shotguns is the "new" stretch of the 12-gauge to 3 1/2", In order to try to match the ability of the Mighty 10 the pressure has been created/set/limited at 14,000psi.


    Best of luck to you.

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    Digging around for info onj 2 1/2" 12-gauge finds a full-power factory hunting load, made in England, adn specifically made for "older double-barrels".

    Excerpts from the add-copy below:

    English shotshell manufacturer, Gamebore, produces high-quality game loads for Britain's game hunters. These loads are purpose-built for fine old doubles; specialty loads such as 2" and 2 -1/2" shotshells in 12, 16 and 20-gauge. European shooters enjoy using old doubles in the field and often, these older guns require specilized ammuniton.

    -12ga 2½"
    -1295 fps
    -1 oz
    -Diamond shot lead #7
    -25 rds per box
    -10 boxes per case
    1295/1300fps from a one-ouncer is demanding a 10,500psi or up loading.

    As I said, I don't think the older shotguns were EITHER especially "stronger" OR particularly "weaker" when it comes to the shotshells.

    I'm not finding anything on the 'net that tells me they are/were either.

    Now, corrosion in Damascus twist barrels changes the rules, but corroded barrel steel joints are never a factor in brand new weapon design/specification.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rigby275 View Post
    Guten tag, Martin -

    Mine is 12 ga., sn 26xx, standard proofs, no date stamp, "Kruppstahl Nitro", no "Germany" on trigger guard, w/"F/S" safety marks, no boss on receiver sides, "Walther's Patent", plain buttplate.

    I've shot it w/trimmed shells handloaded to standard 2 1/2" pressure and it shoots fine but won't even attempt to eject.
    No one whom I've contacted has one which functions semi-automatically, or self-loads. (…)

    If any of you could explain the proper way to do a fieldstrip, it'd be a great help.
    Hi Terry thank you very much for reporting the details of your gun. I liked to have the complete SN for my database – if you like to, please send me a PM. I’d highly appreciate that.

    Welcome to the club of single shot Walther “automatic” shotguns. Mine also refused to cycle properly…. But I don’t give up! According to the manual, it SHOULD work!

    Regarding fieldstripping: I’ll try to explain (see below).

    Quote Originally Posted by rigby275 View Post
    A further note:

    On the bottom of the buttstock, just in front of the swivel, in tiny, nearly illegible letters is stamped "Waffen-Frankone", while the number 18xx is stamped much larger fore and aft the swivel - their inventory number at one time maybe?

    Terry
    Hum, could it be “Waffen-Frankonia”? “Waffen-Frankonia” is a well known gun store chain with a dozen or so stores in Germany.

    Now for the fieldstrip guide:

    Just recently, I planned to shoot the Walther. I took the gun out of the safe and noticed, the rivet guiding the dust cover in a groove of the breech block (and holding it in place) was broken off (Terry, does this sound familiar to you?). Consequently, the dust cover was loosely travelling around in the slide making shooting impossible. So, no testing and the necessity to dissemble the gun for taking the dust cover out.

    So, I had to do what I wanted to avoid: taking the slide off the gun, taking the toggle train out and removing the dust cover.

    Your advantage: photos of the disassembly and the assembly process.


    OK: the disassembly procedure:

    1/ take forearm off and unscrew the barrel

    2/ bring the crank handle in the utmost (very back position) and press down a catch located in the middle of the grip tang



    This will arrest the action spring.

    3/ Pull back the forearm release button und push out the crossbar (which is holding the slide in place); take out the forearm release button (take out also the spring of forearm release button)




    4/ Push the slide forward and lift it up from the receiver

    Voilà! Frame and slide are separated now.








    5/ Take the toggle train out: swing the crank lever up, press the crank spring down and bring the lever in a position allowing the lever to be removed.




    Now you can examine the toggle train.









    I stopped here, as my goal was reached: the dust cover could be removed.


    And now for the reassembly procedure:

    1/bring the toggle train back in place; insert the crank lever.

    2/ now for the most important step: align parts with witness marks:

    2a/ bring the face of the action in line with a witness mark in the slide:




    In the manual this is shown in a drawing:




    2b/ bring a notch of a sliding piece (called "slide shoe" in the manual) located at the right well of the receiver between two witness marks:




    In the manual this is shown with a drawing:




    3/ Put slide on receiver; place toggle link in the hole of the action spring; put "leg" of breech block in the notch of sliding piece

    4/ Press slide down and back; press in the crossbar; insert forearm release button and its spring.

    Now the gun should be ready to be fired.

    SHOULD be ready to be fired! Actually, in my case, it's a single shot gun as the gun isn't cycling. The empty shells will not be thrown out (in 90%), no new shell will be fed (in 100%). Maybe I did something wrong during the assembly process (I doubt it), maybe the pressure of the loads I tried are too strong or to weak. And I tried quite a lot of different loads.

    Well, in some weeks I'll receive another Walther shotgun. Let's see, if this gun will work better.

    Regards

    Martin

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Oldstuffer -
    Thanks for all the info. Given the specs of the Gamebore load, I'd say you're right on about the pressure.
    Knowing that makes me much more comfortable with loading to that level.
    And 1 oz @ 1300ish will certainly do all I need for small game.

    Martin -
    Superb instructions and excellent pix!
    It's been a while since I had mine apart, so I'm not sure which step(s) were giving me the problem.
    I was totally unaware of the catch in step 2; I've always removed the buttstock and operating springs!
    I suspect proper alignment of the two receiver parts was my problem - now I'm actually rather looking forward to taking another run at it, thanks to you.

    And yes, it's "Waffen-Frankonia" - I was relying on (age-prone) memory, unfortunately.

    regards to all,

    Terry

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    central Ks
    Posts
    7,035

    Default

    No problem rigby.

    I'm the absolute last person to want anyone to blow anything up, be it rare or brutally common, but a self-cycling weapon should self cycle if it is in good mechanical condition.
    In proper condition, it is simply a matter of adjustment, either a matter of weapon system adjustment, or ammunition adjustment.
    If the weapon systems are fixed, nonadjustable, the ammo has to be adjusted to suit it.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    9

    Default

    I agree wholeheartedly, Oldstuffer.

    Which prompts me to ask -
    Martin:
    Does your manual have anything to say about recommended lubrication of these guns?
    I'm of the "less is plenty, regularly" school, so a light rubdown with a Rig Rag is what I've given, internal and external.
    Maybe it needs more?

    Terry
    Last edited by rigby275; 09-03-2012 at 07:44 PM.

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Hannover, Germany
    Posts
    79

    Default

    Hi Terry,

    no, the manual is quiet regarding lubricating. Only some general remarks like keep all parts clean and take special care for a clean chamber.

    Regarding ammunition there’s only a short note about maximum and minimum lengths of the shells to be fired (in closed, i. e. crimped state): not longer than 62 mm (2.441”) and not shorter than 57 mm (2.244”). And that’s it.


    Regards

    Martin

  22. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Oldsmar, FL (Tampa Bay)
    Posts
    36,349

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldstuffer View Post
    I highly doubt "higher-pressure loads for stronger actions" ever existed.

    Consider the shotgun is about as pure an outgrowth from Black Powder as anything has ever been.

    Until recently boxes used to tell you velocity at a given payload weight by telling you drams of black powder needed to push that shot charge that fast, "Drams Equivilant".

    Most of the cartridges that crossed over from black to nitro powders are still "restricted" to their lower pressure black powder history due to the black powder-era firearms still in existence.

    The only "change" I have been able to find in shotguns is the "new" stretch of the 12-gauge to 3 1/2", In order to try to match the ability of the Mighty 10 the pressure has been created/set/limited at 14,000psi.


    Best of luck to you.
    American shotguns have been pretty much "one size load fits all".

    Other countries have designed and proofed guns, even of the same guage, to a range of pressures. I'm not familiar with the German system, but Spanish guns are made and proofed to 3 different levels of pressure in 12 ga. The lightest is for "rough" hunting, for upland game, which means that light gun weight is important and there will be only occasional shots. The medium pressure is for driven game, and the heaviest proof and heaviest gun construction is for competition shooting, clay and live pigeons.

    Experienced shooters will select loads appropriate to the pressure their gun can stand as otherwise they will shoot loose fairly quickly.
    211 BC: I swear by Jupiter Optimus Maximus .... in the army of the consul Gnaeus Fulvius Centumalus Maximus and for 10 miles around it I will not steal anything worth more than a denarius in any one day.

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  23. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    741

    Default

    ive never seen one of these before
    very cool looking shotgun

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