Swiss Pragel-Schiessen with K-31 (pics)
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Thread: Swiss Pragel-Schiessen with K-31 (pics)

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    Default Swiss Pragel-Schiessen with K-31 (pics)


    Swiss marksmen shoot with their rifles at targets over 300 metres away in a field during the 'Pragel-Schiessen" on the Pragel pass near Muotathal, central Switzerland August 9, 2008.
    REUTERS/Michael Buholzer (SWITZERLAND)


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    Shootin in flip-flops, ya cant beat that...lol :D. Nice picts , thanks for the post.
    " Praise the Lord and pass the ammo! "

    ( jd46561 on the old Gunboards
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    Talk about narrow firing points! Are spotting scopes not allowed?

    Resp'y,
    Bob S.
    USN Distinguished Marksman No. O-067

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    Looks like a nice range. Definitely not the typical range that you find in many places. :D
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    Sean



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    Very nice. I wonder if they're mad that a lot of their GP-11 was sold to the US.
    Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobS View Post
    Talk about narrow firing points! Are spotting scopes not allowed?

    Resp'y,
    Bob S.
    Not much help at all with any amount of patches already on the targets. Even 80mm spotting scope are not much help. All shots are shown either manually, like in these pictures,

    http://www.sg-muotathal.ch/Pragekbilder/index.htm

    or by electronic targets at the permanent shooting facilities.

    Spotting shots is not allowed during all timed and rapid fire. Electronic targets are programmed not to show the shots in non-slowfire strings until the last shot reaches the target.
    Last edited by diopter; 08-23-2008 at 11:16 PM.

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    Interesting wooden boxes to catch the ejected brass! Keeps empties from hitting or distracting other shooters and they must make policing up the brass a very simple matter. Bob Benson

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    You can buy them in cardboard too.

    http://fshop.kuert.ch/shop/add.php3?...46457&idnr=242

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    Default What interests me is the bipods on the self-loaders

    Every time I've used a bipod, it's been attached to the barrel or a gas cylinder attached to the barrel, and groups have both enlarged and changed position. Those bipods seem to be attached at the front of the handguards. What effect on grouping do they have, and how is the bipod afixed to the rifles.

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    Default 550 bipod

    Bipod is attached to lower handguard. Both upper and lower handguards are very stiff.
    Gas tube is on top of barrel and is much stiffer and thicker than needed just for it's main job of enclosing the gas piston, but it stiffens up the barrel to a great degree prevent the barrel from flexing in an excessive manner. Rifles are sighted in at 300m on the bipod. Closer range shooting would be point blank range so any shift of point of aim is unimportant. Bipod legs also very light so they do not cause a great difference in P.O.I. between bipod deployed position or the folded position.

    http://stevespages.com/pdf/sig_sg550_551.pdf
    Last edited by diopter; 08-24-2008 at 01:39 PM.

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    Bobs

    The course of fire was:

    1 slowfire shot in 60 seconds.
    1 slowfire shot in 60 seconds.
    4 Timed fire in 90 seconds.
    4 Timed fire in 90 seconds.

    Since they manually scored and showed the targets, everyone on the firing line had to fire the same thing at the same time.

    Ten shots for score on A5 target, max 50 points

    http://wl9www853.webland.ch/bild/Bil...ogramm2008.pdf
    Last edited by diopter; 08-24-2008 at 09:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diopter View Post
    Not much help at all with any amount of patches already on the targets. Even 80mm spotting scope are not much help. All shots are shown either manually, or by electronic targets at the permanent shooting facilities.

    Spotting shots is not allowed during all timed and rapid fire. Electronic targets are programmed not to show the shots in non-slowfire strings until the last shot reaches the target.
    Carlos,

    Thank you for the program and the clarifications.

    There is only one place where I was able to see actual .30 cal bullet holes reliably at 300 yards, and that was Camp Perry because of the backlighting. [Correction: also at Dam Neck Virginia for the Atlantic Fleet matches. Same deal, the "backstop" is the ocean, so similar backlighting] Holes in the black looked like little neon lights, even in the old 50mm Bushnell Sentry that I was using in those days. In the white, not so much. But of course, I don't shoot anything out in the white!

    The purpose of the spotting scope at 300 yards and over is to observe conditions, secondarily to assist in plotting and scoring. Usually, the scoring and shot markers are large enough to be seen by the naked eye, even at 600 yards. The paddles in your pix seem to large enough to be seen without magnification also.

    I always scoped after my first two shots in rapid fire, looking for holes at 200 and changes in mirage at 300. Of course, if it is not allowed by the rules ...

    90 seconds for four shots seems like an eternity compared to 10 rounds in 60 or 70 seconds, including dropping into position and one reload; or however many in a Mad Minute!

    Boy, electronic targets sure would be nice! My only experience with them was at NWSC Crane when I was choosing my rifle for the 1992 Palma match. Shoot the shot, and glance at the monitor, and there it is! Technology must be much, much better these days. There is an active discussion about electronic targets over on the National Match board; apparently some folks are trying to figure out the break even time for the high cost.

    Resp'y,
    Bob S.
    Last edited by BobS; 08-24-2008 at 01:21 PM.
    USN Distinguished Marksman No. O-067

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    In case anyone is wondering how they marked the targets:
    Paddles come in towards the hole from outside o'clock position. A paddle scoring a shot at 12 o'clock comes in from that position, above target, towards the actually hole.

    On A5 target
    Paddle with flag = 5 pts
    Red-white = 4 pts
    White = 3 pts
    Orange = 2 pts
    Black = 1 pt
    Waving Black = 0 pts

    On B4 target
    Same except no 5pts.

    On A10 target
    Circling white = muche(X)
    White = 10
    Red-white = 9
    Black paddle = 1-8 depending on position on target frame. It comes in from clock position, stays there a few seconds, then moves to score position on target frame like so:

    6----7----8
    [----------]
    4--9/10---5
    [----------]
    1----2----3
    Last edited by diopter; 08-24-2008 at 11:10 PM.

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