Carl Zeiss Springfield connection
Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Carl Zeiss Springfield connection

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    240

    Default Carl Zeiss Springfield connection

    Advice from the sniper expers please on value. I have two fully functioning optically clean rifle sights that I am told have quite a bit of history, from pre-WWI US Springfield sniper trials to front line service. Seemingly evidence reflects both British and I mperial German using these on service rifles, with adapted mounts, in 1914.
    Forgive me for the many pictures.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0836.jpg 
Views:	34 
Size:	273.8 KB 
ID:	2141986Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0837.jpg 
Views:	27 
Size:	289.1 KB 
ID:	2141994Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0838.jpg 
Views:	24 
Size:	286.8 KB 
ID:	2142002Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0839.jpg 
Views:	23 
Size:	270.1 KB 
ID:	2142010
    Seeking all items to the MG08 & MG08/15 & T Gewehr.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    240

    Default

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0840.jpg 
Views:	21 
Size:	292.3 KB 
ID:	2142018Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0841.JPG 
Views:	13 
Size:	282.5 KB 
ID:	2142026Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0842.jpg 
Views:	13 
Size:	299.8 KB 
ID:	2142034Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0843.JPG 
Views:	22 
Size:	256.0 KB 
ID:	2142042
    Seeking all items to the MG08 & MG08/15 & T Gewehr.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    240

    Default

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0844.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	290.7 KB 
ID:	2142050Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0845.JPG 
Views:	15 
Size:	288.6 KB 
ID:	2142058Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0846.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	295.0 KB 
ID:	2142066Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0847.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	287.8 KB 
ID:	2142074
    Seeking all items to the MG08 & MG08/15 & T Gewehr.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    GunBoards.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    240

    Default

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0848.jpg 
Views:	8 
Size:	302.8 KB 
ID:	2142082Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0849.jpg 
Views:	6 
Size:	292.3 KB 
ID:	2142090

    sadly on one soft leather/chamois case. Any ideas or history and value would be much appreciated, even period imagery of its use. Thanks. Mark
    Seeking all items to the MG08 & MG08/15 & T Gewehr.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    1,086

    Default

    Hello,

    I have seen a couple of period pics of trials or other on Zeiss Prismatic scopes it is a pretty famous one and been around for some time I think it is a Australian pic. From the info I have the Zeiss prismatic era were from about 1901/02- about 1911/12 so for the most part Prismatic scope were no longer in production for sniper use in WWI. Zeiss did not make another hunting scope till 1921. Many other firm were in production of the traditional hunting scope during WWI. I believe England was one of 2 to field a Prismatic scope the other was the USA. Now were some used anything can happen so generally 99.9% of these scope are for commercial hunting use only. This is the Zeiss info I have at about 1908-1910 scopes like were know them as we do today the look anyways was the NEW technology and was pushing prismatic tech to the dinosaur era as they were deemed very fragile. the mounts on one of your rifle looks to be for a Austrian Mannlichner the 2 piece one. The 1 piece is for a side mount I still have yet to find a base in my research. Goerz, Hensoldt, and 1 other that eludes me at the moment made Pristmatic for maybe 2 to 3 years as examples for some are no more than 100 - 300.

    later
    vaughn

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    240

    Default

    Very helpful Vaughn thank you. So from what you say unlikely that large numbers of these saw Military service? I have yet to locate any period imagry showing them in military use. Any idea on commercial value? Thanks
    Mark
    Seeking all items to the MG08 & MG08/15 & T Gewehr.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    646

    Default

    G.Z. means GewehrZielfernrohr. Those are very first prismatic scopes, just like the Warner & Swasey Musket sights. Austria due to a shortage of snipers also used commercial scopes during WWI, but I have never seen a G.Z. scope among those.
    Those scopes often appear with early English guns, they seem to have been popular prior to WWI with British gunmakers. The mount on both of your scopes seem to also be of civilean origin and definitely not military.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    240

    Default

    Dave huge thanks for the extra info. Do you have any conservative idea on value, the optics floating inside are perfect.
    How would I best describe these sights for sale? I have no idea on 'sniper' vocabulary. Thank you.
    Seeking all items to the MG08 & MG08/15 & T Gewehr.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    646

    Default

    I would not dare to call it sniper optics. It is one of the very first scopes Zeiss ever made. There were the G.Z.I, G.Z.II and the G.Z.III. Yours is the third model. I've seen them for sale between 300 and 3000 Euro. They sometimes were also sold by Rock Island Auction. Make a penny auction on eBay or gunbroker and see where it goes to.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    240

    Default

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	op (74).jpg 
Views:	30 
Size:	84.5 KB 
ID:	2151842Click image for larger version. 

Name:	op (75).jpg 
Views:	27 
Size:	84.9 KB 
ID:	2151850Click image for larger version. 

Name:	op (76).jpg 
Views:	30 
Size:	77.8 KB 
ID:	2151858

    Thanks for this. Hope it adds to the identification.
    Seeking all items to the MG08 & MG08/15 & T Gewehr.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    240

    Default

    Just to say that these are 2 different sights with different markings.
    Mark
    Seeking all items to the MG08 & MG08/15 & T Gewehr.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    1,086

    Default

    Hello,

    Here is the 1 photo I could find. To add to Dave's info they also made a GZIV and they also had a run marked Teleweit and Telekipp with what looks like end of production is about 1913 as that the last catalog I have Zeiss Prismatic listed for sale. I believe they are GZIII and GZIV dropped the GZ markings and added Teleweit/Telekipp but I need more info they are 2x power. The new thing is the two models are 2 different constructions the Telekipp is the construction of the GZIII and the Teleweit is the GZIV construction. The reason I have reas so far for the 2 different models is the way the mounting brackets works with the type of firearm used. the GZIII/Telekipp is for like Mauser type actions. the GZIV/Teleweit is for shotgun SXS or Drilling's as the mounting bracket placement DROPS the scope lower to look through but I am still working on this on my observations.

    later
    vaughn
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Zeiss GZ on SMLE.jpg  

    Last edited by vaughn99; 04-19-2017 at 06:04 PM.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    240

    Default

    Vaughn excellent info. Huge thanks for taking the time and effort to add knowledge to this thread.
    Mark
    Seeking all items to the MG08 & MG08/15 & T Gewehr.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    1,086

    Default

    Hello,
    I re-wrote the above response as it was a little confusing.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    240

    Default

    I have incoming some detail from another collector about early trench use by the British in 1914 of these type of scopes. so thanks again everyone for contributing - more to follow.
    Mark
    Seeking all items to the MG08 & MG08/15 & T Gewehr.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    240

    Default Carl Zeiss pre-WWI

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	CZ1.JPG 
Views:	13 
Size:	155.0 KB 
ID:	2425514Click image for larger version. 

Name:	CZ2.JPG 
Views:	12 
Size:	144.0 KB 
ID:	2425522I have been sent an article from the Collector Magazine. I hope you can read it well enough and I am still awaiting the details on WWI usage.
    Seeking all items to the MG08 & MG08/15 & T Gewehr.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    463

    Default

    I know nothing of this, as I research Marine Sniper rifles in the Archives. And I'm clueless on German Scopes But someone told me to come over here as they know I have all the pre WWI sniper docs from Springfield Armory and they thought this might interest you guys.

    This was the 1912 field trial of the Zeis scope by the US Army. There also was at least one previous scope in 1904. I have a lot more on this but I'm getting ready for vacation. But if this is something you need more info from, or it means something to you, let me know and I will pull it when I get back.






  19. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    240

    Default Amazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Finneran View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	CZ1.JPG 
Views:	13 
Size:	155.0 KB 
ID:	2425514Click image for larger version. 

Name:	CZ2.JPG 
Views:	12 
Size:	144.0 KB 
ID:	2425522I have been sent an article from the Collector Magazine. I hope you can read it well enough and I am still awaiting the details on WWI usage.
    Sir although my main passion is WWi German MGs and I am keen to have my two rifle scopes go to a good home, your area is fascinating and I am sure everyone will be keenly interested. What a fantastic source of material. Great study material/archives and all safe and secure! I have found in some areas of my research on WWI, valuable archive material was lost in the London Blitz 1940.
    Mark
    Seeking all items to the MG08 & MG08/15 & T Gewehr.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    646

    Default

    The Ross shown in the article is a Scotch Deer Stalker, a civilean rifle produced by the Ross Rifle, based on the 1905 action. The Zeiss G.Z. scope shown with it is mounted on a Wiener Schnäppermontage, sometimes also referred as Mannlicher Schönauer mount. So all in all a fully civilean rifle, which however is credited to someone from the military. It is very possible that this particular rifle might also had seen usage at the front, but I from my personal point of view would not call it a sniper rifle or a sniper scope, just because a single piece of it made it to the front.

    Steven, very interesting what you had posted! I especially like the fancy fact that it uses exactly the same style rail as the W&S Musket Sight! But is it just me, or is the scope factually shown appearing to be different from the one drawn?

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    463

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFromSheffield View Post
    Steven, very interesting what you had posted! I especially like the fancy fact that it uses exactly the same style rail as the W&S Musket Sight! But is it just me, or is the scope factually shown appearing to be different from the one drawn?
    Yeah it does look a fuzz different. But the one is all written in German, so maybe that is what Zeis company had dreamed up? And the pic is the actual real world completion of it?

    I have no clue honeslty. I have the docs that go with it, but I have never read more than about 2 sentences to confirm they aren't anything to do with the A5 and threw them in a pile.

  22. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cplnorton View Post






    is it possible to get more infos about this drawing?

  23. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    240

    Default Zeiss early sniper 1912 catalogue.

    Found some additional info on these two. Still looking to sell.
    Mark
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	62D44650-5669-45E2-A6CC-307209ECDE91.jpeg 
Views:	0 
Size:	307.5 KB 
ID:	3680643
    Seeking all items to the MG08 & MG08/15 & T Gewehr.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •