Non-Swedish Rifles in 6.5X55
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Thread: Non-Swedish Rifles in 6.5X55

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    Default Non-Swedish Rifles in 6.5X55

    Any discussion allowed here of non-Swedish rifles in 6.5X55? In addition to my Swedish Mausers, CG63, and AG42b, I also shoot a CZ 550. I also recently acquired a SAKO 85 Bavarian, thanks to Gander Mountain's liquidation sale.

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    Maybe related to loads, ammo used...?
    or maybe comparable accuracy with your Swede's?
    Last edited by DK PHILLIPS; 06-29-2017 at 02:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DK PHILLIPS View Post
    Maybe related to loads, ammo used...?
    or maybe comparable accuracy with your Swede's?
    Yes, that's the idea.

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    I recently picked up a Winchester CRF Model 70 FW in 6.5x55. I am hoping soon to see how it compares accuracy wise to my Husqvarnas, CG's, and various Mausers also chambered in 6.5x55.

    That SAKO sounds sweet, the CZ550 is a bit heavy in the chambering for my tastes but I bet it is a very accurate rifle.

    One of my very favorites is a Swedish Mauser 96 sporter in an ugly but very serviceable stock that is fitted with a GF Diopter sight. Very light, very accurate despite a slightly frosty bore. A real pleasure to carry all day and very handy.


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    Quote Originally Posted by z1r View Post
    I recently picked up a Winchester CRF Model 70 FW in 6.5x55. I am hoping soon to see how it compares accuracy wise to my Husqvarnas, CG's, and various Mausers also chambered in 6.5x55.
    Any idea when your Model 70 was made? I was looking high and low for one when I came across the CZ 550, a rare rifle in an even rarer caliber in my neck of the woods.

    That SAKO sounds sweet, the CZ550 is a bit heavy in the chambering for my tastes but I bet it is a very accurate rifle.
    The CZ 550 rifling is 1 turn in 9". After some testing I found it is a perfect twist for Prvi 120 gr Match ammo. I am astonished at how well this factory ammo shoots in the CZ 550. I was able to rationalize getting the SAKO since its rifling is 1 turn in 8" or a lot closer to the classic Swedish Mauser, so it is better suited to 140-144 gr bullets.

    One of my very favorites is a Swedish Mauser 96 sporter in an ugly but very serviceable stock that is fitted with a GF Diopter sight. Very light, very accurate despite a slightly frosty bore. A real pleasure to carry all day and very handy.
    Interesting sight. Looks like it was inspired by the M1 Garand sight.

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    I am going to have a heavy long range target rifle built this year in 6.5x55 to shoot against friends with 6.5 Creedmores. Haven't decided on the action yet, possibly from an older model 700.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swedesixandhalf View Post
    I am going to have a heavy long range target rifle built this year in 6.5x55 to shoot against friends with 6.5 Creedmores. Haven't decided on the action yet, possibly from an older model 700.
    Seems to me the Savage would be a contender since barrel swapping is relatively easy. I found this: http://www.eabco.com/savagebarrels.htm
    No telling how good the barrel and Savage action lash up will be, but at least it can be done at a budget-friendly cost.

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    Husky, Carl Gustaf 1900 action would be the best you could do....finding one not the easiest!
    "Christís Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

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    As To Military, many have forgotten the M1900 Luxembourg Mauser ( a Swedish M96, made by Mauser at the same time as the 1899/90 Order from Sweden, but fitted with Normal Bayonet Band (M95) and Rear sights....only a few Thousand Made, and Most Lost during WW I, and eventually WW II...some have survived in more advanced Collections ( see JPS)

    Doc AV

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    Ahh
    Those beautiful silky smooth actioned Norwegian Krags also. I have a 1912 carbine with sadly sporterized wood.
    Gil

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    besides the military swedes, i have a CZ 550 and a remington 700 classic in 6.5x55. eastbank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eastbank View Post
    besides the military swedes, i have a CZ 550 and a remington 700 classic in 6.5x55. eastbank.
    That's a great pairing: a controlled feed and a push feed. Any preference?

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    on shooting no, they both shoot very well. but for spot and stalk i like the remington as its lighter. eastbank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eastbank View Post
    on shooting no, they both shoot very well. but for spot and stalk i like the remington as its lighter. eastbank.
    Yes, my CZ 550 is pretty hefty. I expect it's because the CZ 550 action is basically a large-ring Mauser. The stock wood is probably also dense. It is also heavier than my new SAKO Bavarian.

    The SAKO Bavarian's receiver certainly looks a lot less "beefy" than the CZ 550's. But it is in no way weaker. I call the SAKO 85 action a "Mausin" since it appears to me to be a hybrid Mauser and Mosin Nagant.

    The MN receiver is immensely strong. The two bolt head locking lugs are at 9 and 3 o'clock when closed, so one lug has full left side of the receiver to back it up. The traditional Mauser action locks up at 12 and 6 o'clock, so it is only the receiver ring that backs up the bolt. The bottom Mauser bolt lug has less steel behind it because it is milled away to form the feed ramp. Paul Mauser recognized this potential weakness and added the third safety lug in the model 98.

    The SAKO 85 action bolt has three lugs, and when locked, two of the three lugs are backed by the entire length of the receiver, so it can have a smaller and lighter receiver ring. The root of the bolt handle sits in a notch in the tang, so it is an additional locking lug, somewhat like the Krag's bolt handle.

    I shoot my CZ 550 for targets only. The extra weight works to my advantage. I also like the fixed Mauser-style ejector since I reload. I can plop the fired case down onto the bench by easing the bolt open. A push-feed action with a plunger ejector flings the extracted case the same distance regardless of how you open the bolt.
    Last edited by Leon; 07-12-2017 at 10:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DK PHILLIPS View Post
    Husky, Carl Gustaf 1900 action would be the best you could do....finding one not the easiest!
    DK, I have a 1900 I bought from Simpson's, in large part due to you bragging on them. I already had a 1640 in 30/06, and really like it. The 1900 is in 7 mag, excellent rated barrel, in a heavy aftermarket stock. It has some kind of weight attached around the end of the barrel. I was leaning toward a 700 because they are the small block Chevy/1911 of rifles for customizing. I do have an extra 1640 action....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leon View Post
    That's a great pairing: a controlled feed and a push feed. Any preference?
    I own both, well, CZ550 American, CZ550FS and a Pair of 700 Classics. for bench shooting or a very good rest - CZ550 is hands down more accurate due to its set trigger. I have both CZs paired with Vortex 4-12 scopes. Now, for hunting - R700 is MUCH more friendlier both weigh and shouldering wise... I have hunted white tail with both - CZ550FS took a stationary doe at about 155m, immediate DRT with 129gr SST handloads; 700 took more deer but is also set up for longer ranges, notably twice a pair on the run and once a 3 shot/3 deer in a 40secons span at average 335m distance from a ground blind with Primos tri-pod and hunting stool... So each has its purpose and application. Ruger M77 Mark II - had actually spooked a doe when I was moving safety off at 72m according to my rangefinder - if not for that CLICK I would also consider a mini-Mauser Ruger a worthy contestant. Ruger episode had doe staring at me (I was sitting on the ground on the top of the hill with no cover, just a tri-pod and my stool) for close to 5minutes before going broadside and allowing me for a shot.
    Accuracy wise, I do not find a push feed or controlled feed to be a factor at all, and I judge that by Winchester 70 in the same barrel length, and obliviously, 6.5x55 caliber with same loads..

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    Quote Originally Posted by gil View Post
    Ahh
    Those beautiful silky smooth actioned Norwegian Krags also. I have a 1912 carbine with sadly sporterized wood.
    Gil
    I don't have a Norwegian Krag; maybe one of these days I'll get lucky. But I do have 30-40 US Krag, and it too is a super slick action.

    One thing I've noticed is that my CZ 550 requires a heavy shove on the bolt handle to strip the first round out of the magazine. This may be due to the shape of the follower, which does not have a bolt stop, like the M96, which is very smooth in loading.
    My newly acquired SAKO 85 also loads very smoothly and easily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leon View Post
    One thing I've noticed is that my CZ 550 requires a heavy shove on the bolt handle to strip the first round out of the magazine. This may be due to the shape of the follower, which does not have a bolt stop, like the M96, which is very smooth in loading.
    My newly acquired SAKO 85 also loads very smoothly and easily.
    That is because 6.5x55 is the 'fattest' of its family, so if you take a CZ550 in 270win or 30-06 - you find that stripping a first round is much more ginger compared to swede... CZ internal 5rd magazine (for this family of cartridges) is fairly tight when loaded and more so when its 6.5x55. I did notice that as well! So my thought was to relieve top of the follower a bit, but I did not want to modify my rifle or spend the money to get spare followers to play with it. What seems interesting, is that if you take really early commercial Norma brass and measure diameter of the rim - its wider vs. current production brass which does not seem to have an issue with a .473 bolt face...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KAIFS View Post
    That is because 6.5x55 is the 'fattest' of its family, so if you take a CZ550 in 270win or 30-06 - you find that stripping a first round is much more ginger compared to swede... CZ internal 5rd magazine (for this family of cartridges) is fairly tight when loaded and more so when its 6.5x55. I did notice that as well! So my thought was to relieve top of the follower a bit, but I did not want to modify my rifle or spend the money to get spare followers to play with it. What seems interesting, is that if you take really early commercial Norma brass and measure diameter of the rim - its wider vs. current production brass which does not seem to have an issue with a .473 bolt face...
    Kaifs: good to know that this is a common trait of the 6.5X55 CZ 550. When I first noticed this I worried that my particular rifle had a defect. It took a while to figure this out.

    I saw an episode of the WWII "Wochenschau" newsreel where a German "Landser" is firing his Kar 98. He also seems to be using a lot of force to work his bolt. I don't have a Kar 98, so I don't know if that is the nature of the beast, or if the guy in the newsreel had some wonky war-time ammo. But I do have an 03-A3, and it loads smoothly and easily from a full magazine.

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    Leon, once you get a Norwegian Krag - its like a 'butter p0rn0graphy' when it comes to bolt.. I have NEVER felt a smoother bolt than on a Norwegian Krag as far as military rifles, granted I did not venture into many in my life and did not own a 03-A3, or yet

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    Quote Originally Posted by KAIFS View Post
    Leon, once you get a Norwegian Krag - its like a 'butter p0rn0graphy' when it comes to bolt.. I have NEVER felt a smoother bolt than on a Norwegian Krag as far as military rifles, granted I did not venture into many in my life and did not own a 03-A3, or yet
    Well, I like the Krag, and I reload 6.5X55, so if I ever cross paths with a Norwegian Krag in good shape I would not hesitate.

    The only Norsk Krag I have ever seen was in a local gun/pawn shop. Its stock had been elaborately carved - really beautiful work - but I don't like that sort of thing and the price was obscene.

    Anything in 6.5X55 is rare in my parts, but one never knows. In recent years I've found a Ljungman AG42b and an unissued 42 Husqvarna M38 with the original M94 sights. It's like hunting: you wait in your blind until something worthwhile wanders your way.

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    The Tikka T3 is currently made in 6.5 Swede.BSA and Sabatti both made rifles in 6.5x55 in the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caerlonie View Post
    The Tikka T3 is currently made in 6.5 Swede.BSA and Sabatti both made rifles in 6.5x55 in the past.
    I gave a lot of thought to getting a Tikka. But I have a "fetish" for controlled feed so I decided in favor of the SAKO 85 instead.

    A friend is shooting a Tikka and getting superb long range groups with it. The rifle is definitely a contender.

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    smile

    (My varmiter tikka is a tack driver in 223).
    one gun that I own not a husky or gustaf supprised me with easy of shooting one hole groups 100-200 measured yards.
    so much I put 33 X fixed target scope one it.

    the 6.55 according to cartridge guides shooter bible book I just bought.
    at 300 yards zero with 123 gr lapua. 1347 energy, ve 2217
    at 200 yard zero with 140 gr sp federal 1585 energy ve. 2260
    Keeping up with continued pride, or better to most modern versions of 6.5's equivalents.

    a bullet case design so a advanced it transcended modern efforts to supress it marginally.
    On Mark ballistically still bullishly compeating today!
    Dan

    ps: one problem with tikka is the plastic clip and follower spring.
    the bolt doesn't want to pick up first round ...tipping down in back of mag?

    i took out mag spring on a new gun...reversed it...bent bottom to lift rear slightly in order for bolt to catch rear of round soundly!
    read on internet others had simular problems.... with no resolve stated or found fix?
    223...maybe be others?
    "Christís Grace + being constitutionally solvently Give strength resistant To Marxism!

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    Howa 1500 is chambered in the venerable swede!

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    z1r,
    That is one COOL sight! Like a super Garand NM site.
    I'm sure they're expensive when found.
    How many psi in a CUP?

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    I have a Ruger M77 RSI, one of 250, in 6.5x55. Shoots clover leafs with Norma 156 gr. RN.
    If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruffel View Post
    I have a Ruger M77 RSI, one of 250, in 6.5x55. Shoots clover leafs with Norma 156 gr. RN.
    I believe Ruger made a limited number of their No. 1 dropping block rifle in 6.5x55 too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leon View Post
    I believe Ruger made a limited number of their No. 1 dropping block rifle in 6.5x55 too.
    you better jump on the No.1 in 6.5x55 now, because its being discontinued (I am not sure if the whole line or just 6.5x55). These are fetching $1.3k now a days.. Do not own one, as its hard to justify the cost...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KAIFS View Post
    That is because 6.5x55 is the 'fattest' of its family, so if you take a CZ550 in 270win or 30-06 - you find that stripping a first round is much more ginger compared to swede... CZ internal 5rd magazine (for this family of cartridges) is fairly tight when loaded and more so when its 6.5x55. I did notice that as well! So my thought was to relieve top of the follower a bit, but I did not want to modify my rifle or spend the money to get spare followers to play with it. What seems interesting, is that if you take really early commercial Norma brass and measure diameter of the rim - its wider vs. current production brass which does not seem to have an issue with a .473 bolt face...
    I made an interesting finding about the propensity for my CZ 550 to offer a lot of resistance to feeding the first round in a full magazine.

    Load 5 dummy rounds. With the bolt retracted, note how the bolt has some up and down free play in the rear receiver ring. If you let the bolt handle just drop down with its own weight, or apply a little downward pressure on the handle, the first and successive rounds strip out of the magazine with no resistance.

    I think the "problem" is that the shooter has a natural tendency to pull up on the bolt handle, and hold it there as he begins to push the bolt close. This is causing the front of the bolt to bind in the receiver channel. It looks like the "trick" is to relax the hold on the bolt handle a bit, or apply a slight amount of down pressure when beginning the closing bolt stroke.

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    today i adjusted the regular trigger and the set trigger on my cz 550 in 6.5x55 and it was a piece of cake, i thought it would be a bugger. eastbank.

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    Standard Swede loads for 139gr are moving @ 2800+ fps. Just sayin

    http://imgur.com/a/ATUiO

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    Quote Originally Posted by SAFN49 View Post
    Standard Swede loads for 139gr are moving @ 2800+ fps. Just sayin

    http://imgur.com/a/ATUiO
    standard swede ACCURACY loads for 139-140gr are actually chronograph between 2475-2800fps out of 22" pipe, with most sweet spots around 2550-2750fps depending on the powder. Notably, Lapua 139gr Scenar commercial ammo is 2625fts and considered one of the most accurate commercial ammo out there for modern rigs with 1-8 twist. Just sayin

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    Quote Originally Posted by KAIFS View Post
    standard swede ACCURACY loads for 139-140gr are actually chronograph between 2475-2800fps out of 22" pipe, with most sweet spots around 2550-2750fps depending on the powder. Notably, Lapua 139gr Scenar commercial ammo is 2625fts and considered one of the most accurate commercial ammo out there for modern rigs with 1-8 twist. Just sayin
    It gets tricky to pin down THE accuracy load with the non-Swede rifles, since they have twist rates that vary. As I've mentioned before, the commercial Prvi 120 gr Match does very well in both my CG 63 and CZ 550, but is disappointing, i.e. sloppy groups, with my original M96 and M38's.

    Perhaps we can build a little data base here for the best loads for the various non-Swede rifles we shoot.

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    I wanted a bolt action rifle (modern) in 6.5x55 too but I'm not sure if it's going to be as accurate as my 100yo Swede mausers are?

    I did buy a half done Swede m96 oberndorf 1899 all matching of course wood and metal it's in excellent condition what's left of it of course bubba cut it. To scope it but I never finished it yet.
    The aliens are here already are you going to save our planet?

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    Love the 6.5x55 so much that I'm now looking for a CZ 550 American in that cal. Tough to find.
    If anyone has a lead on a NIB one, I'd sure love to hear about it.

    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorado68 View Post
    Love the 6.5x55 so much that I'm now looking for a CZ 550 American in that cal. Tough to find.
    If anyone has a lead on a NIB one, I'd sure love to hear about it.

    Thanks!
    CZ still makes the 550 controlled-feed action in 6.5X55, but only in the full Mannlicher stock. If you can tolerate a shorter barrel, this is worth considering. (I know I am!)

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    Well, I went with the 550 FS, should arrive this week.
    Wanted the American, but I couldn't pass up the deal and really like the Mannlicher stock.
    Now to scope it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorado68 View Post
    Well, I went with the 550 FS, should arrive this week.
    Wanted the American, but I couldn't pass up the deal and really like the Mannlicher stock.
    Now to scope it
    The Mannlicher stock CZ550 is as close as you can come to a modern M94. It has irons sights, and you might just enjoy shooting "au naturel." My CZ 550 American came with a set of 1" rings, and I would expect yours will too. If not, or if you prefer a 30 mm scope, Leupold makes rings for the 550 receiver.

    Looking forward to reading your range report.

    One final note: the CZ 550 Mannlicher has a three-position safety, and one position lets you work the bolt to unload the magazine with the trigger blocked. My CZ550 only has a 2-position safety, and to unload the magazine I have to unlatch the floor plate.

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    I traded into a CZ550 in 9,3x62 a few years ago. Compared to my Husqvarna's and various Mausers, it is heavy and doesn't feel as nimble. It is however accurate. I decided that I did not like it in its current state so I ordered a full stock for it. Much better. I'm sure you will like the FS.

    In addition to the numerous 6.5x55ís I own, I built both my boys 6.5x55ís as their first deer rifles. The oldest was 11 at the time and big enough that we built his on a Standard 98 with blind magazine. My youngest who was 8 at the time got a NOS 94 carbine barrel attached to a small ring Mexican 98. We started them off with handloads consisting of Nosler 100 gr BTís over a light charge of RL15. This netted 2700 fps. While this mild load may seem anemic, it was more than enough for my youngest to dispatch a 250 lb PA whitetail with. My own hunting loads are a book max load using a 129 or 140 grain bullet depending on what I am hunting. I never had the need to magnumize the Swede.

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    I have a Tikka 695 in 6.5x55. Bought it about 15 years ago. It shoots about 1.5 MOA consistently but I haven't yet found a load that will do MOA groups. Not that big a deal; half an inch one way or the other at 100 yards isn't going to make you lose your deer if you make a decent shot in the first place. I've seen very, very few of those older Tikkas in 6.5mm. The Tikka action is super smooth and the rifle is generally a pleasure to shoot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by icebear View Post
    I have a Tikka 695 in 6.5x55. Bought it about 15 years ago. It shoots about 1.5 MOA consistently but I haven't yet found a load that will do MOA groups. Not that big a deal; half an inch one way or the other at 100 yards isn't going to make you lose your deer if you make a decent shot in the first place. I've seen very, very few of those older Tikkas in 6.5mm. The Tikka action is super smooth and the rifle is generally a pleasure to shoot.
    What ammo have you shot? Do you know the barrel's rate of twist? If it is in the 1 turn in 8.5"~9" region, try Prvi Partizan 120 gr "Match" in it. I get phenomenal results with it in my CZ550 and CG63. It is all but useless, however, in the M96 or M38.

    But ultimately, you will find reloading is the key to optimum accuracy, since you can develop, or "tune," your load to your rifle's individual character.

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    Reloading is the key to optimum accuracy??? That's questionable.

    My 94 Remington 700 in 338wm will put two rounds through the same hole taking the X right out at 100yds using new over the counter Winchester 225gr super x ammo. No reloading needed. Even new Remington ammo was inaccurate.

    On the other hand my old 72 mossberg 30-06 bolt action to this day will shoot nickel sized five shot groups using my Speer 180gr reloads. I tried every new brand of new ammo and she didn't tighten up the group size, I even tried some usgi full metal jacket to break in the barrel, I believe there was burrs in the rifling. I find anything 2" and larger is unacceptable. I have 700rds through this barrel and she's as accurate as when I first reloaded for it the $172 price tag new with a scope was worth it.

    Now my 444 marlin using new Remington ammo is accurate. Go figure.

    My 1907 Swede m96 CG 6.5mm 29" barrel Mauser using new sellier and bellot 131gr sp ammo will shoot 1 1/2" groups at 100yds. I never touched this gun she's the way I purchased it, no scope. I had some SWAT guys shooting next to me Coke over to see what I'm shooting with no scope. When I told them it's a 100yo Swedish Mauser there jaws dropped. They said they had 308 bolt action rifles scoped that couldn't do that. My old swedish babe makes me a proud owner.

    If new over the counter ammo is inaccurate then reload. Don't shoot high pressure loads when looking for accuracy?
    When you figure it out and she's still not grouping tight as you want drop back your powder charge just a tad, she should tighten up the groups.

    I don't think I'd get the same accuracy as my old Swede in a new modern rifle.

    Note, my Chinese sks using norinco ammo will shoot 1 1/2" groups at 100yds no scope 16" barrel. My 20" barrel scoped will shoot 5/8"/3/4" groups. Figure that one out. A $59 Chinese rifle.

    Accuracy isn't a given with any gun or ammo till we figure it out. I think with my experience in shooting that dam 338wm makes everything else easy to shoot.

    My bubba chopped Swede m96 the barrel is thicker at 22" that cuts out some of the vibrations and harmonics. I'm not saying cut a Swede down but look for a bubba one. I refuse to bubba a Swede. I have restored a few bubba m94's too at my cos of around $750. This was a time I found cut down stocks on the m94 rifles.
    Last edited by 1911crazy; 08-15-2017 at 02:26 PM.
    The aliens are here already are you going to save our planet?

  45. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    17

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    I have a Zastava M70 with a Mannlicher stock 1-8 twist. It isn't as pretty as the CZ but I am very happy with the way it shoots. It was also 400.00 cheaper than the CZ. I'm getting 7/8" groups with 123 gr. Hornady A Max over Varget powder. Bullet seating length was a critical factor in minimizing group size.

  46. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Dogpatch, NC
    Posts
    7,419

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    Quote Originally Posted by vmax204 View Post
    I have a Zastava M70 with a Mannlicher stock 1-8 twist. It isn't as pretty as the CZ but I am very happy with the way it shoots. It was also 400.00 cheaper than the CZ. I'm getting 7/8" groups with 123 gr. Hornady A Max over Varget powder. Bullet seating length was a critical factor in minimizing group size.
    How would you rate the Zastava for fit and finish? http://www.zastava-arms.rs/en/civili...-m70-fullstock

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