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  1. #1
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    Default SKS Long Barrel - wow

    While I know very little about these, I think the buyer did well on this one. Wow! Auction has ended.

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/741622067

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    Very, very few of these long ones out there. Less than a hundred. Buyer has a rare collectible!

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    Yep very few ever came over and they are one of the rarer models.
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    Yup, 1K doesn’t sound unreasonable for an M59 long barrel, even for one that’s a bit rough around the edges. #48 is already recorded in the serial data of 30 LBs at SKS Files, so it’s been twirled around the dance floor before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphorus32 View Post
    Yup, 1K doesn’t sound unreasonable for an M59 long barrel, even for one that’s a bit rough around the edges. #48 is already recorded in the serial data of 30 LBs at SKS Files, so it’s been twirled around the dance floor before.
    Previous sale was for $905 from the same seller (exact same photos too) back in April, 2016. Looks like that buyer either backed out of it or the transaction didn't go through for whatever reason. The final bid this time around was only $95 more. I'm kind of surprised by that to be honest. Poor Yugos are the red headed stepchildren and just don't command the respect the other flavors do...
    Want to know when your Type 56 Chinese SKS was made? Visit us at SKS-Files for in depth discussions or look up lots of information over at the Chinese SKS Guide!!

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    A more rare model is Chinese Type 56 SKS long barrel version.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcke2000 View Post
    A more rare model is Chinese Type 56 SKS long barrel version.
    Details please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard in NY* View Post
    Details please.
    Please see the attached picture.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Type 56 Long Barrel.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by pcke2000 View Post
    Please see the attached picture.
    Thanks for posting. That’s the photo, and the two rifles, that I was thinking of when you mentioned the Chinese long barreled SKS. That photo (of what I assume is a museum or arsenal collection display) is the only one I have ever encountered and I have made many an extensive web search for photos and articles (of interesting pieces such as these) to copy for my research archives.

    I believe that the rifles in question are prototypes or trial pieces and I would be amazed to discover that any exist outside of the Chinese glass display cases.

    The long barreled Yugoslavian SKS rifles can honestly and accurately be described as rare. The Chicom prototypes, assuming that’s what they are, can be honestly and accurately described as unobtainable.

    Just in cases I didn’t use the words “assume or assuming” enough times, please note that I am merely expressing my personal opinion and I have no documentation to support my conclusion.
    Purists of the world, unite!

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcke2000 View Post
    Please see the attached picture.
    That picture just inspired me to make a RPK style stock & add a bipod to one of my chicom SKS.

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    this is a good price with the ones that came up for sell a couple years ago went for $1500. when i had to sell off my collection i got $2000 for the one i had. s/n 078.
    "Experience teaches us that it is much easier to prevent an enemy from posting themselves than it is to dislodge them after they have got possession."

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    I have one of these. Is someone keeping track of serials? If so, let me know and I'll dig it out.

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    Is not it the same rifle that was for sale on CIA surplus corner site for long time?
    Came from Samco surplus pile.
    It was missing a bunch of parts including front sight and was over $1K.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis View Post
    I have one of these. Is someone keeping track of serials? If so, let me know and I'll dig it out.
    go to SKS files they have the info. on them.
    "Experience teaches us that it is much easier to prevent an enemy from posting themselves than it is to dislodge them after they have got possession."

    -George Washington 1732-1799

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    Andreipou, I think the one that was at Century for a long time was numbered as 015. If I recall correctly, some small parts were numbered other than 015, and yes, it was missing the front sight.
    Quote Originally Posted by andreipou View Post
    Is not it the same rifle that was for sale on CIA surplus corner site for long time?
    Came from Samco surplus pile.
    It was missing a bunch of parts including front sight and was over $1K.

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    I got lucky and bought two in 2016.

    Attachment 2848537

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis View Post
    I have one of these. Is someone keeping track of serials? If so, let me know and I'll dig it out.
    Yes, as wacman85 mentioned, we are most definitely tracking them at SKS-Files.com. Would love to see it!
    Want to know when your Type 56 Chinese SKS was made? Visit us at SKS-Files for in depth discussions or look up lots of information over at the Chinese SKS Guide!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulinNe View Post
    I got lucky and bought two in 2016.
    Would love to see yours too PaulinNe. Your attached photos don't appear to be working.
    Want to know when your Type 56 Chinese SKS was made? Visit us at SKS-Files for in depth discussions or look up lots of information over at the Chinese SKS Guide!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by running-man View Post
    Would love to see yours too PaulinNe. Your attached photos don't appear to be working.
    Hoping that I can generate an image for the attachment from PaulinNe. The serial numbers are 014 and 037.



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    Hi Everyone,
    I can clear up some info on the Long Barrels. I found a crate of LB M59s couple of years ago when SAMCO was still doing business.
    Took alot of dealing I paid a good price for an M59 at the time. Link below with alot of pics on the group I got.


    http://sks-files.com/index.php?topic...18759#msg18759


    048 on GB is NOT from the SAMCO lot. it's probably PWArms as a few M59 LB turned up before and were in ok/poor condition. The Samco 59LB are direct form arsenal storage
    and are in great condition for the most part.

    015 was on CIA web site for like a year+. I ended up with it last fall as well. I asked for detailed pics of 015 as I heard it was a mix master of several rifles and not matching.
    Turned out that was a mistake. 015 is mostly matching, receiver, stock, mag-plate and a few other EP marked parts. Bolt is un-numbered. Turns out CIA thought that the individual part #s that are there as serial #'s.
    only missing the front sight globe topper and cleaning rod. I got a great deal on it as no one wanted it :-) can't believe no one else got to it all year long before I did. Turns out do not listen to rumor, LOL

    Prices - Initially I sold several LB's around $1500ish. This past fall I sold my last extra LB for well over $2k. and there is a line with $$$$ if I ever want to sell one. So demand for a prototype LB far exceeds supply.

    There were a couple unique oddities in the lot as well. one LB had a tag affixed to the stock. do not know the meaning, the new owner will have fun researching it.

    I kept 007 and 015. I think one guy had 003 or 005 but it is rough. Dan's found a few LB last year as well. I think totally there are around 20 known LB out there in the wild. out of 100 or so built.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Dang. If you look up "corner on the market" in a dictionary, you will see Raspootyn's pics.

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    Buyer got it at a great price..... I paid 2k for #019 7-8 months ago. If I had seen this one in time, the price would atleast be $25 higher than it ended at......
    Last edited by Mxwllbkr; 02-01-2018 at 02:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martin08 View Post
    Dang. If you look up "corner on the market" in a dictionary, you will see Raspootyn's pics.

    It was an Epic find!


    Had I known there was a LB for $1k I would have bid it up alot more as well. The buyer got a gift and then some.
    Ok fine, after years of people asking, I finally created a website to show/trade and sell "Eastern Front" milsurp. Check out milsurpselect.com and PM me with any questions...

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    The approximately one dozen LBs from Dan's Ammo were PW Arms and all that I saw were in good condition (as refurbished). I bought 021 (mismatched stock) in the Fall of '15 (first lot), and the matching 040 with original short bayonet groove LB-style stock in July of '16 (second lot). Perhaps about half or maybe even most of the surviving LBs ended up in the US considering 30 are recorded in the SN list and undoubtedly more are out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphorus32 View Post
    The approximately one dozen LBs from Dan's Ammo were PW Arms and all that I saw were in good condition (as refurbished). I bought 021 (mismatched stock) in the Fall of '15 (first lot), and the matching 040 with original short bayonet groove LB-style stock in July of '16 (second lot). Perhaps about half or maybe even most of the surviving LBs ended up in the US considering 30 are recorded in the SN list and undoubtedly more are out there.
    I meant the ones on GB sold in the past were rough. The PW batches were very nice. only drawback was the PWArms stamps vs. the Samco lack off.
    I had paid for one LB from Dans batch as well when they had them, however I was told their computer had oversold and I was given a refund. I think that happened to several others as well.
    It does look like the Yugoslavians left all the M59 LB in crates and sold them. So I do hope to find another crate or 2. or someone else find them...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raspootyn View Post
    Had I known there was a LB for $1k I would have bid it up alot more as well. The buyer got a gift and then some.
    That "buyer" is someone you know. He REALLY likes the LBs.

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    Martin08 - thanks for posting the picture. I'll take some more pictures and post them (after I figure out how to post pics).

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulinNe View Post
    Martin08 - thanks for posting the picture. I'll take some more pictures and post them (after I figure out how to post pics).
    If you use the "Go Advanced" option from the Quick Reply mode, your picture attachments will show.

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    Interesting as I have 068



    Quote Originally Posted by wacman85 View Post
    this is a good price with the ones that came up for sell a couple years ago went for $1500. when i had to sell off my collection i got $2000 for the one i had. s/n 078.

  31. #30

    Default Some details for 048

    Folks, I've had some time to take a few photographs of 048. Some interesting aspects of the rifle are
    1. It is a Tennessee Guns import; can anyone offer any time span for the date of import, given this marking?
    2. The cleaning rod is an early, female-threaded rod at the large end;
    3. Secondary electropenciled "31" on the bolt carrier;
    4. Secondary electropenciled "33" on the bolt;
    5. Bolt appears to be a reused item-note what appears to be an older number underneath the present 048;
    6. Electropenciled "428" on the gas tube;
    7. Tappet/piston extension is manufactured with a flat, on which the drawing number is placed (not sure if this is common on Yugoslav SKSs);
    8. Interesting drawing number location on the stock (under the rear of the receiver).


    More photos to follow shortly!
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  32. #31

    Default More 048 Photos

    A few more:
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  33. #32

    Default And lastly, 048 is back with some friends...

    For comparison's sake.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 34.jpg  


  34. #33

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    The chinese LB was found by me back in 2015 and was posted here.... Seems I need to find the pics and replace them after the ransom bucket episode.

    http://sks-files.com/index.php?topic...10618#msg10618

    Surprised nobody noticed the OP rifles number also located at the bottom left rear of the receiver. This is another oddity found on the LBs.
    Want to know when your Type 56 Chinese SKS was made? visit us and discuss it at SKS-Files or look up lots of information over at the Chinese SKS Guide!!

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    This may have been talked about already, but why exactly did the Yugoslavians make a long barreled SKS? Was it an attempt to make an SKS a standard length infantry rifle as opposed to a carbine or something similar? I don't mean to derail anything but I am genuinely curious.
    Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right.
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  36. #35

    Default A theory...

    RusskieSniper, I'll offer up my theory as to the purpose that these rifles served. I think they may be intermediary, developmental pieces that are roughly analogous to the T44 (?) rifles in between the M1 Garand, and the M14. I think the chronology may have been this:

    1. Yugoslavia develops/adopts the M59.
    2. Yugoslavia decides an integral grenade launcher would be nice.
    3. The "long barrels" are used to test the feasibility of a grenade launcher:


    • The gas port pressure will be different with a grenade launcher affixed.
    • The dwell time/cycling time will be different with a grenade launcher-when will the bolt unlock, and will the pressure be safe?
    • We know that barrel lengths of "long barrels" may vary, according to what can be gleaned off the web; I think this could reflect playing around with the length to see what happens with the action/gas pressure.
    • Other developmental concepts are tried during testing and evaluation. I think this may explain why some rifles seem to have a mix of "serial numbers," which I don't think are serial numbers at all. I think the numbers we see on these rifles could be numbers that are used to track the performance of a concept. Note my photo of the bolt with what appears to have been a scrubbed number, perhaps the one that still can be seen elsewhere on the bolt.
    • A limited number of "long barrels" are issued to troops in the field for performance evaluation. Some get used (or used up!) in the subsequent civil conflict. That's the reason I'm interested in the TGI import mark: if 048 was a very early import, back when the only available Yugoslav SKS rifles were the first few very rough rifles, I think 048 may have been one to have been used in combat.

    I think once the kinks in the system were worked out, the M59/66 was adopted. Anyway, like I said, just a theory!

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    jmaurer,

    I understand some, but not all, of these Long Barrels had chrome lined barrels. That seems to support your theory of these being developmental pieces (try everything, right?)

    I haven't seen any responses here about your Long Barrel having the Tennessee Guns import mark. Does anyone else have one with the TGI marks?

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    While I agree they were experimental, I don't know about them being used as test subjects for the grenade application...but that is a valid idea.

    The additional length may be more supported by their attempts at making a 'sniper' SKS. The Yugoslavians did make some sniper scope mounted 59/66A1s...and I suspect that the barrel length (especially the variations in the LBs) were for accuracy testing. The windage adjustable front sight seems to lend to them seeking better accuracy vs gas pressures (who knows, maybe both?) It seems a lot easier to adjust the gas port size vs barrel length if you are playing with pressure though. I think it was mainly done to increase the rifling surface area and improve bullet stability. Since it was abandoned, apparently it wasn't worth the trouble of altering the shipping box sizes. With the launchers, they are not much different in length...aside from the addition of the launcher itself. Gas shutoff valves were a common thing for grenade launching by that point...so I don't think the extra length was so much to do with the launcher aspect. If pressure was a concern, killing the gas cycle and toying with blank cartridge loads would be a far easier way to tune grenades.

    I wish I had the financial gumption at hand when these became available...they now seem likely to be amongst the most valuable SKSs ever made.

  39. #38

    Default Sniper Variants: Have any been noted?

    Kissvids, there may be something to the notion of these as a sniper (or perhaps, a "designated marksman") rifle. When I acquired the one pictured with the tag on the stock (from a very nice collector, by the way!), the yet-to-be-traced back story is that this rifle may have been part of an accuracy evaluation program, or possibly some marksman's rifle prototype. Note, however, that this particular rifle is one of the oddballs with a production-series receiver, and no adjustable front sight base. Has anyone seen one of these that has been used as the basis for an ON-2 or M89 (or other scope) equipped sniper/marksman rifle?

    Part of what led to my conjecture about barrel length versus operability is the continual development of the Stoner-series of rifles in 5.56, and how barrel length/gas tube length/gas port pressure affects the rifle's reliable function. I guess I thought that with the extra bits on the end of the barrel, the arsenal figured it would be easier just to assemble one with a longer barrel as opposed to going through the trouble of mounting a prototype grenade launcher to each test rifle; that is, it's easier to make a longer barrel in different lengths to determine how the thing will work. But again, just a theory. Who really knows, other than the guys at Kragujevac? And after our "assistance" back in the '90s, how difficult could finding that info be?

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    I had a request to ask Serbian military authority Branko Bogdanovic about the Yugoslavian long barrel sks. Here is what He had to say;
    During the development of the M1959 semi-automatic rifle (PAP M59, ''Yugoslavian SKS variants''), in 1960, for the needs of polygon testing, were made an experimental series of 100 rifles with 520 mm[20.47"] long barrel and 100 rifles with barrel length of 542 millimeters[21.34"]. Rifles with "long barrel" were only experimental prototypes.
    Now, for me at least, that begs a question about "what polygon testing"? I have replied to Branko asking him for clarification of that comment. I'll bring it along when I hear back.

    The above was completely in error. What Branko meant was a proving ground, field testing as others will attest below. I reported the correction below but, am also posting here for the benefit of those who might otherwise have replied w/out reading on.
    Apologies for my haste. I should have gotten the info first and then publish the correct info. Again, sorry.
    Last edited by nothernug; 07-06-2019 at 04:23 PM.
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    "Polygon" in this case is "military test field", not at "polygonal" , "hexagonal", "octagonal", etc.
    So it is just "for the filed test"....

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    I am the fortunate recipient/owner of one of the long barreled Yugos (bought it years ago on GB). Of the "100 rifles with 520 mm[20.47] long barrel and 100 rifles with barrel length of 542 millimeters[21.34]."[/QUOTE], I'm not sure which of the two barrel lengths I have, however, as I've never measured it. Just curious though, which ones does everyone have? Do any of the other SKS collectors on this thread have both? Got me thinking. Was only one of the experimental long barrel lengths imported? Or are they both here in the US? If both are here, then there's yet another variant for the collector to covet and hopefully hunt down and acquire one day.

  43. #42

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    I'll have to take some measurements of barrel lengths once I'm back home and able, but a big THANK YOU! to Nothernug for helping us all figure out these fascinating rifles!

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    Quote Originally Posted by andreipou View Post
    "Polygon" in this case is "military test field", not at "polygonal" , "hexagonal", "octagonal", etc.
    So it is just "for the filed test"....

    He's right. I got a reply. Branko confirms he meant proving grounds. For the record, his reply;

    No, this was accuracy testing on Proving ground.The army finally adopted semiautomatic rifle (PAP) with barrel length of 520mm. The barrel had a rifling twist of normal 4 grooves, right hand twist, 1 turn in 240mm bore. Polygonal was only in a new Serbian automatic rifle (carbine in US terminology) 5.56mm M21 (but, only export variant).
    Last edited by nothernug; 07-06-2019 at 04:05 PM.
    "In times of trouble and of war, God and soldiers we adore; When wars are done and wrongs are righted, God's forgotten and the soldier slighted." Ye Olde English proverb; origin unknown

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    Mine is 21 3/4 number 068 maybe we should get a list together

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    I concur - polygon refers to proving grounds or range. Common EU reference. In fact, the term for shooting range in Spanish is “polígono”

    Not that this information gets me any closer to a 542mm barrel SKS 😄

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